chain-punching damagewise.

[Juany118]

Yes. Knees, shin, groin, and one of my favorites (although an unusual target): the inner thigh. It's almost comical to watch the leg buckle outward when you hit there. LOL

Outer thigh, common perennial nerve works to but that usually needs to be a knee or toe kick.

 

[Juany118]

Interesting. I see some significant parallels with the principles I teach in NGA.

1. The simultaneous attack and defense is found in several arts, and each seems to take a different approach to it, a different way they evolve the principle in practice (for us, it's usually most obvious in us stealing the balance or structure in the process of defending).
2. While I do teach meeting force with force early (because they're going to mess up and do it, anyway, so I give them tools there), that principle holds true, and the force-on-force is only seen in experienced students as a recovery from a blown movement.
3. Blind side is where most of our best work lives, and I like to get close. I refer to this as hiding behind their shoulder. I'm a very creepy teacher sometimes.

We also prefer to be that close as well, this way you can "control the elbow and you control the opponent."

 

[ShortBridge]

- Without feet, there are no hands.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What?

If you and I were sparring or fighting. I wold pull you off balance and while you are trying to regain your balance I would punch and kick you and I wouldn't stop until you have successfully regain your balance. The body's natural desire to keep balance is so strong that when you are off balance, the body will make it the highest priority to regain balance to the point where you can't return punches or block while off balance. In a fighting context this means that the body is completely defenseless while it tries to regain balance. Your "attack and defense systems" don't come back online until you have regained balance. When you consider that more than 4 punches can be thrown in less than 2 seconds, having your attack and defense capabilities shut down can be a big problem.

So the next time you spar and you knock your opponent off balance, then hit him. Don't just stand there and let him regain balance unchallenged. Hit him. Just keep in mind that you only have .5 -2 seconds to get your strikes in before they regain balance. This is why some of the TMA will intentionally pull the opponents punching hand of a person leaning forward. This means I get decide when and where the person will be off balance making it easier for me to get my strikes in.

 

[wckf92]

- Without feet, there are no hands.

Dang skippy!

"No feet...no fight"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We also prefer to be that close as well, this way you can "control the elbow and you control the opponent."

That's awfully thoughty of you. I mostly just like being creepy.

 

[guy b]

Mabye you are confused with sanda

No I'm not confused. VT does not fight "in the pocket", and it does have effective kicks. Are you confused?

Anyway. the reason people generally stay upright ,chin high, hands low. (and because this is something to watch in all martial arts unless you actually do have a reasonable compromise).

Is because it is easier. So after an hour or training you are generally pretty sick of holding a good defensive position and you start to cheat.

chain punching rewards this by being a bit harder and faster from a center of the chest position

Not sure what this has to do with VT

 

[drop bear]

I Am not sure what you mean by punching "from the pocket."

Also, what do you mean by WC does not effectively kick? If I kick someone in the shin or groin and it causes enough pain where I go on to win the fight, that is pretty effective to me. Might not be a boot to the head like in Tae Kwon Leap, but you don't need to kick high to be effective.

Not a kick that you would compromise your ability to throw good hands for. If you kick someone in the shin or the groin and they counter with strikes.

Tae kwan leap will do all sorts of mechanical compromises to make that head kick work. Honestly you cant afford to with a groin kick.

 

[drop bear]

No I'm not confused. VT does not fight "in the pocket", and it does have effective kicks. Are you confused?



Not sure what this has to do with VT

So VT fights more on the back foot and engages with power kicks?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you knock your opponent off balance, then hit him.

This does not make sense. When your opponent is moving

- forward and you hit him (head on collision), that's A + B > A.
- backward and you hit him (rear end collision), that's A - B < A.

When your opponent's is moving forward, one good punch will knock him down. When your opponent is moving backward, you may need to throw many punches instead.

 

[Juany118]

Next time you spar with them, knock them off balance, and when they off balance hit them until they regain balance. If you do sweeps then do one to keep them off balance.

Well I think part of the problem is he is working under the assumption a boxing/MMA stance is the only proper stance for striking. Many MA's use a far more "straight up" structure and their techniques (both offense and defense) are designed around this different structure. In Wing Chun, the lazy guy is the one who starts to lean forward. As an example a tan relies on the upright WC structure to stop a strike, if you were leaning forward (and were not clearly stronger than the person striking) you would almost inevitably find yourself recoiling at the waist, disturbing your structure. However with the proper (more "upright") structure what force the application of the tan itself doesn't address doesn't get "choked" in the hips but passes down into your legs and thus into the ground.

Same goal, different principles to achieve said goals.

 

[Juany118]

This does not make sense. When your opponent is moving

- forward and you hit him (head on collision), that's A + B > A.
- backward and you hit him (rear end collision), that's A - B < A.

You don't have to strike to disturb balance however. You can, as an example, apply a lap after they attack and press, disturbing their balance and then strike.

 

[drop bear]

Well I think part of the problem is he is working under the assumption a boxing/MMA stance is the only proper stance for striking. Many MA's use a far more "straight up" structure and their techniques (both offense and defense) are designed around this different structure. In Wing Chun, the lazy guy is the one who starts to lean forward. As an example a tan relies on the upright WC structure to stop a strike, if you were leaning forward (and were not clearly stronger than the person striking) you would almost inevitably find yourself recoiling at the waist, disturbing your structure. However with the proper (more "upright") structure what force the application of the tan itself doesn't address doesn't get "choked" in the hips but passes down into your legs and thus into the ground.

Same goal, different principles to achieve said goals.

There is no consistent boxing/MMA stance. Different people use different stances.

 

[Phobius]

Not a kick that you would compromise your ability to throw good hands for. If you kick someone in the shin or the groin and they counter with strikes.

Tae kwan leap will do all sorts of mechanical compromises to make that head kick work. Honestly you cant afford to with a groin kick.

At least how I train there are different types of kicks. Those within pocket and those from outside.

Inside pocket the kicks are generally targetting areas such as knees or shin. And without compromise how you deal with strikes. A kick and a punch may occur at same time without any compromise in power when "inside pocket" if I understand that term correctly.


Now to lowering hands, WC does not invite such behavior any more than all martial arts including MMA does. Everyone that is training, getting tired and not being shown a reason to keep hands high will eventually learn to drop them.

You can be taught through sparring, repetition, or just putting your hands to your chin in guard between punches initially to learn keeping them up. Sensation of hands touching chins are a good way to remind yourself of need to raise hands constantly. Once this is taught properly a different guard can be used easily and still maintain hands high.


All stances have weaknesses. It is just about learning what those are and being ready to shift.

 

[guy b]

So VT fights more on the back foot and engages with power kicks?

Posing "in the pocket" or "more on the back foot" as an either/or is an example of false dilemma, a dishonest arguing tactic when used intentionally

VT certainly has effective kicking methods that can end a fight

 

[drop bear]

Posing "in the pocket" or "more on the back foot" as an either/or is an example of false dilemma, a dishonest arguing tactic when used intentionally

VT certainly has effective kicking methods that can end a fight

Centerline/forward momentum and the pocket are basically the same thing.

And i am sure you have tons of fight finishing kicks.

 

[drop bear]

At least how I train there are different types of kicks. Those within pocket and those from outside.

Inside pocket the kicks are generally targetting areas such as knees or shin. And without compromise how you deal with strikes. A kick and a punch may occur at same time without any compromise in power when "inside pocket" if I understand that term correctly.


Now to lowering hands, WC does not invite such behavior any more than all martial arts including MMA does. Everyone that is training, getting tired and not being shown a reason to keep hands high will eventually learn to drop them.

You can be taught through sparring, repetition, or just putting your hands to your chin in guard between punches initially to learn keeping them up. Sensation of hands touching chins are a good way to remind yourself of need to raise hands constantly. Once this is taught properly a different guard can be used easily and still maintain hands high.


All stances have weaknesses. It is just about learning what those are and being ready to shift.

Yeah. You don't actually need to be upright to make any of that work. If you were doing thai for example you may need to stay upright because you want quick access to kicks. But that is because they are bigger kicks. You hang back with an upright posture and punt a guy in the head with your foot.

You want to enter and finish with hand strikes that means you need to close every single opening that the other guy can utilise. So what you need there is to hunch forward and cover your chin.

If you do one while trying to set your body for the other. You are going to have a bad day. There is just a lot of risk involved in that method.

 

[guy b]

Centerline/forward momentum and the pocket are basically the same thin

VT doesn't fight "in the pocket". It sounds like you don't know what VT entails and are just guessing?

And i am sure you have tons of fight finishing kicks.

VT has effective kicking methods that can end a fight

 

[guy b]

Yeah. You don't actually need to be upright to make any of that work. If you were doing thai for example you may need to stay upright because you want quick access to kicks. But that is because they are bigger kicks. You hang back with an upright posture and punt a guy in the head with your foot.

You want to enter and finish with hand strikes that means you need to close every single opening that the other guy can utilise. So what you need there is to hunch forward and cover your chin.

If you do one while trying to set your body for the other. You are going to have a bad day. There is just a lot of risk involved in that method.

So basically we are judging on similarity to MT or boxing, without any understanding of VT strategy? Lol

 

[drop bear]

So basically we are judging on similarity to MT or boxing, without any understanding of VT strategy? Lol

No basic elements of striking. As removed from stylistic concerns. It is a non ideological approach.