Canadian Civil Libertarians Defend Coulter

[Blade96]

just read the article in the toronto sun.

and in it apparently this is what she said about us after bush won his second term in office.

2004 George Bush won a second term as a president of the United States after a race in which some democrats lamented they'd move to Canada if Bush defeated Al Gore. Weeks later, Ann Coulter appeared on Fox. Here's what she said:

"The worst Americans end up going (to Canada). The Tories after the Revolutionary War, the Vietnam draft dodgers after Vietnam and now after this election we even have blue states moving up there . . .


When you're allowed to exist on the same continent of the United States of America, protecting you with a nuclear shield around you, you're polite and you support us when we've been attacked on our own soil. They [Canada] violated that protocol.



They better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent.
They don't even need to have an army, because they are protected, because they're on the same continent with the United States of America , , , we're their trading partner. We keep their economy afloat."



Yeah, like I'm gonna respect someone like that *rolls eyes*

 

[Bill Mattocks]

funny, people defending Anne Coulter's right to free speech and to say what she wants and feels

when people like her would turn around and take every one of your rights away in a heart beat if they could. You think she'd respect you? Hah!

I've known lots of religious conservative nutters like her.

and btw I've seen her, and often think, No wonder she is pretty. She must have been born with most of her good qualities on the outside. =]

The Klan, the Neo-Nazis, and other hate groups have long marched, demonstrated, and exercised their free speech rights in the USA. As you say, they would clearly deny some of us those same rights if given the opportunity. And yet, the ACLU has consistently defended them in court, defended their right so say the most vile and hateful things. And rightfully so, too.

The fact that you think little of Ann Coulter is no reason to restrict her freedom of speech, even if you feel she'd deny you that same right if she could.

The fact that you think it's OK to deny freedom of speech to people with whom you do not agree does not speak well for your dedication to liberty. Liberty is not just allowing civil liberties to those we agree with.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yeah, like I'm gonna respect someone like that *rolls eyes*

Respecting a civil liberty is not the same as respecting the opinion of the person uttering garbage like hers. It is important to be able to separate the right to speak from what is being said.

 

[Carol]

I agree. However, attempts made to stifle speech that others do not wish to hear as opposed to simply not listening to it are not the actions of a person who supports the notion of freedom of speech, as one might suppose a university would do.

Or that people appreciate said freedoms of their own.

 

[Ken Morgan]

OK, I was going to skip this thread, but what the Hell.

Firstly one of my friends was very involved in bringing Ann up here to speak, secondly I am a member of the conservative movement up here.

Ann does not, as far as I can tell, in anyway represent main stream people on this side of the border or south of the border. She represents a hard right group. Quite frankly a group that sometimes scares me.

As for her being a Christian, so what? Hell I’m an atheist and I would like to see nothing better then all of the worlds religions go the way of the dodo, but Christianity and all other religions are not illegal, she can think whatever she wants. If she wants to worship a Pineapple, I have no problem with it just so long as she gets no special treatment because of it.

I disagree with a great deal of what she says, but as long as she is not telling people to go out and kill other people, she should be able to say as she wishes.

Jacklyn, yes she had a bit of an anti Canadian rant there, but she was playing up to an American audience. Seriously? Check out some of our serving politicians and some of their anti American rants. Ann at least is not an elected official.

I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

 

[Ramirez]

...which is funded by the Province of Ontario, the employees of the University of Ottawa are Provincial employees, btw.

But..either way, I never intended to mean it was Ottawa the seat of government that shut her out, I was referring to the city/uni itself.

From what I read it was Coulter's handlers in conjunction with the university that made the decision to cancel the speech so Coulter censured herself.

As for Coulter trying to use Houle's letter as a breach of human rights against her.

1) it was a private email no matter how misguided

2) it was leaked to the National Post a conservative newspaper, by who else except Coulter's people, had they not done that no one would have been the wiser of the university administrator's letter.

 

[JDenver]

My opinion is that we shouldn't miss the point on this one.

No one actually prevented her from speaking.

The University didn't. The Ottawa police didn't. There were piles of people peacefully protesting her appearance. So many people, in fact, that police and her own security were worried about what COULD happen. So, they canceled it. How is THAT a violation of free speech?

She fanned the flames, made everything public, got all up in arms about it so that she could have more press, which is basically why she exists - to vacuum up publicity.

[At least things here are civil. I was just on another board where guys were going berserk; why are there women's groups at universities anyways?! why can muslims say whatever they want but no one else can?!

Ugly stuff.]

 

[Ramirez]

I have to add the hypocrisy here is apparent, none of the conservative commentators in Canada who are now such champions of free speech defended George Galloway's right to free speech when the Harper government banned him from entering the country.

It also occurs to me that those demonstrating university students were also exercising their right to free speech, if Coulter was cowed into not appearing that is her problem, not a matter of free speech being censured in Canada unlike the Galloway situation where he was censured by the government.

 

[Ramirez]

My opinion is that we shouldn't miss the point on this one.

No one actually prevented her from speaking.

The University didn't. The Ottawa police didn't. There were piles of people peacefully protesting her appearance. So many people, in fact, that police and her own security were worried about what COULD happen. So, they canceled it. How is THAT a violation of free speech?

She fanned the flames, made everything public, got all up in arms about it so that she could have more press, which is basically why she exists - to vacuum up publicity.

[At least things here are civil. I was just on another board where guys were going berserk; why are there women's groups at universities anyways?! why can muslims say whatever they want but no one else can?!

Ugly stuff.]

Exactly, apparently no one wants to recognize the university students' right to free speech , only poor Ann deserves that consideration.

 

[Blade96]

Maybe I am just not as nice as you guys.

and maybe that comes from suffering a lifetime of abuse.

I just know that you can't always be nice, because the world isnt nice.

now I draw the line when sometimes people - and my dad was one of em - saying "let the US torture prisoners at guantanamo bay because they would have done the same to our side" I dont believe in torture.

But I'm not saying go out and do anything to Ann Coulter. I just dont believe the welcome mat should be rolled out with all the trimmings because I know if people like her could, they wouldnt be treating us very well either.

I just love the way they cry out 'respect our free speech' and they try to hide behind the charter of rights and freedoms (or the american equivalent) while they actually promote the opposite view. In reality they dont respect the charter.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

In reality they dont respect the charter.

If you don't respect the charter on the grounds that they don't respect the charter, that condemns both parties.

The right to freedom of speech either exists or it does not. If it is not recognized because the person speaking is loathsome, then it does not exist. Period.

You would deny a right to someone based on your belief that they would deny you that same right. That makes you both the same.

 

[Blade96]

i would deny her right? I didnt say ban her. I just wouldnt spread out my arms and wrap her in a hug.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

i would deny her right? I didnt say ban her. I just wouldnt spread out my arms and wrap her in a hug.

Fair enough. Sounded like you were saying the opposite, my bad.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Very important point made that no one ordered Coulter not to speak -- the letter from the VP of UofO was, at the very least, a naive move that backfired. She is partly the author of the escalation of this debacle.

Also, Coulter's lambasted Canada before, as in the following video of an interview with a CBC reporter in which she erroneously maintained that Canada participated in the Vietnam war. It also includes the comments that blade alluded to above.

I could give a fiddler's fart that Ann doesn't like Canada or insults us. If Coulter and her ilk ever began to look fondly upon us, I would feel we were doing something very wrong. If somebody up here wants to spend Canadian $ to bring her here, that's there prerogative. Defending her right to speak is not the same as defending what she says. I think it's ludicrous for Canadians to invite someone who regards us with such condescension, but that's their problem.

 

[Ramirez]

Firstly one of my friends was very involved in bringing Ann up here to speak, secondly I am a member of the conservative movement up here.

Ann does not, as far as I can tell, in anyway represent main stream people on this side of the border or south of the border. She represents a hard right group. Quite frankly a group that sometimes scares me.

As for her being a Christian, so what? Hell I’m an atheist and I would like to see nothing better then all of the worlds religions go the way of the dodo, but Christianity and all other religions are not illegal, she can think whatever she wants. If she wants to worship a Pineapple, I have no problem with it just so long as she gets no special treatment because of it.

I disagree with a great deal of what she says, but as long as she is not telling people to go out and kill other people, she should be able to say as she wishes.

Jacklyn, yes she had a bit of an anti Canadian rant there, but she was playing up to an American audience. Seriously? Check out some of our serving politicians and some of their anti American rants. Ann at least is not an elected official.

I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

Is your friend Ezra Levant Ken? I have to ask why your friend would think it would serve any useful purpose to bring Coulter to Canada?

I can't believe he would think she would have anything constructive or interesting to add to the discourse up here, he must have known it would deteriorate into the side show it has ended up as.

Was he just being mischievious? Rabble rousing, pot stirring?

Surely in the vast galaxy of conservative commentators he could have found someone with more gravitas and intelligence that might actually sway some people into the conservative camp instead of just polarizing the populace.

 

[blindsage]

I honestly sometimes think Ann Coulter is Andy Kaufman's final and greatest joke.

 

[Blade96]

I think she is scary.

I just found this about her.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/912606.html

I even just listened to a little interview she gave on the tv. In which she said we're a nice 'little' country. Say what?

Its just - scary what people like her would do if they ever got the chance.

 

[Carol]

Exactly, apparently no one wants to recognize the university students' right to free speech , only poor Ann deserves that consideration.

Which "no one" are you referring to, and which "right to free speech" are you referencing?

 

[Ramirez]

Which "no one" are you referring to, and which "right to free speech" are you referencing?

I was referring to the columnists in the Canadian papers....as for which "right to free speech" am I referencing......there is more than one right to free speech?

 

[Carol]

I was referring to the columnists in the Canadian papers....

Ahh...much clearer....thanks

as for which "right to free speech" am I referencing......there is more than one right to free speech?

(Sorry this is going to sound wicked ignorant) Do you folks have a legal/chartered right to free speech? Or were you saying so in reference to an overall freedom?

Sorry for the questions...I'm finding the conversation interesting and just want to be clear that I'm not interpreting something the wrong way.