Can i do multiple martial arts at the same time???? Please help

[Gerry Seymour]

I should be fine I think, I’m 6ft 2

Is that with or without the high heels?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nonsense.

A person has only a set amount of time on this earth. They can give time to learning one thing well, or divide that time between multiple things, learning each less well. They are free to choose how they wish to divide their time.

Hence the old but accurate saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none."

I'm not telling anyone how to decide or what to learn. I am saying what the results are going to be.

Most people become good at their job (some change professions and get good again), learn a sport reasonably well, get good at a game or hobby, etc. We have the capacity to become good at more than one thing.

That said, for those who want to get deep into the background of an art, lean deeply into the culture behind it, etc., that takes a lot of time - more than just the time to learn the physical principles well. Most folks won’t have the time - with other life priorities - to do that in more than one art.

 

[Steve]

You can also learn one martial arts poorly and many martial arts well.

You could learn one art kind of well, and master another art. Or you could learn a bunch of arts pretty well, and one art poorly. Or a few arts well, a few arts pretty well, and a dozen other arts a little. I mean, possibilities are literally endless.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Going back to my own training - one of my secondary arts I practice is Sumo. I won't pretend for a moment that I am good at Sumo. (Although I have a lot of fun with it anyway.) It doesn't make my BJJ significantly better. However it does help me become a better martial artist. There are certain mental and physical attributes that I consider to be relative weakness of mine from a martial standpoint. Sumo forces me to develop those attributes to a higher level.

Just wanted to rephrase the italicized portion slightly. Doing Sumo does help me get better at BJJ. (There are areas where the skills overlap.) It just doesn't help my BJJ as much as if I spent that same time practicing actual BJJ.

 

[Steve]

You could learn one art kind of well, and master another art. Or you could learn a bunch of arts pretty well, and one art poorly. Or a few arts well, a few arts pretty well, and a dozen other arts a little. I mean, possibilities are literally endless.

I can think of several people in my family who have mastered multiple musical instruments. Heck, My son plays the drums and the the bass guitar very well, and is pretty good on a six string. He also plays the melodica a little, just for fun. He’s also an outstanding artist, and does many other things very well. And he’s not even 30 yet.

It’s amazing how much time we have to excel in things if we don’t waste it playing video games or watching Netflix (though I have nothing against either of those activities.)

My point isn’t critical of specialization Folks should follow their passion. My point is that it’s sad when folks think they have to choose one thing because they believe they only have capacity to learn one thing.

This is particularly true if can agree that doing things well doesn’t necessarily mean doing them at an elite level.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Can you do multiple martial arts at the same time? Yes. Can you learn multiple martial arts at the same time? Depends on what you mean by learn. If it's just to learn the techniques, yes, but will still be somewhat confusing for the body to get comfortable with and sort out possibly conflicting principles. I can imagine the difficulty one would have trying to learn two foreign languages at the same time. Some with a special aptitude may be able to do so, especially when young, but for most of us it would be quite a challenge.

As Gerry said, to really get into the particular art, one must delve deeper and explore, and that takes time. But I'll go a little further here, beyond background and culture, into the art itself. To truly learn, it's best to immerse oneself into the subject. To excel in French and really get comfortably and creatively conversant in it, and understand the nuances, sense of humor and irony, it's best to live in France for a year or two. To live, eat, breathe and use it on a daily basis. For it to become natural. In other words, one must become French.

To me, such immersion is necessary to internalize and absorb the essence of the subject, whether language or MA. Once the subject is internalized and has become an integral part of you, the skill is set and solidified. Then, I think it will be no problem to start learning something new.

 

[Steve]

Can you do multiple martial arts at the same time? Yes. Can you learn multiple martial arts at the same time? Depends on what you mean by learn. If it's just to learn the techniques, yes, but will still be somewhat confusing for the body to get comfortable with and sort out possibly conflicting principles. I can imagine the difficulty one would have trying to learn two foreign languages at the same time. Some with a special aptitude may be able to do so, especially when young, but for most of us it would be quite a challenge.

As Gerry said, to really get into the particular art, one must delve deeper and explore, and that takes time. But I'll go a little further here, beyond background and culture, into the art itself. To truly learn, it's best to immerse oneself into the subject. To excel in French and really get comfortably and creatively conversant in it, and understand the nuances, sense of humor and irony, it's best to live in France for a year or two. To live, eat, breathe and use it on a daily basis. For it to become natural. In other words, one must become French.

To me, such immersion is necessary to internalize and absorb the essence of the subject, whether language or MA. Once the subject is internalized and has become an integral part of you, the skill is set and solidified. Then, I think it will be no problem to start learning something new.

I think we can all agree that there is always more to learn. And yet the limitation remains self imposed.

Multilingual children in houses where multiple languages are spoken become fluent in both languages. And there are many benefits to it. It seems hard because you have not tried it.

Multilingualism: Multiple Benefits

Multilanguage learners (MLLs) are children learning two (or more) languages at the same time. Multilingualism has multiple benefits.

www.zerotothree.org

 

[isshinryuronin]

Multilingual children in houses where multiple languages are spoken become fluent in both languages. And there are many benefits to it. It seems hard because you have not tried it.

Yes, for two reasons I mentioned: 1. Kids brains are hot wired to pick up language. 2. They are immersed in the language using it every day in real life situations.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Well to anyone that sees this… thank you very much for all your replies I found them very helpful… I have decided not to start TKD, but am still on the look out for a possible 2nd art for when I get to a decent belt in karate (I will carry on karate as well as the other art)…. Any suggestions on what is a good style to add to karate???

French cooking.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Hence the old but accurate saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none."

I'm not telling anyone how to decide or what to learn. I am saying what the results are going to be.

What's in a trade?

Maybe flesh, maybe bone.

Let us both be masters of tomorrow.

 

[drop bear]

I think we can all agree that there is always more to learn. And yet the limitation remains self imposed.

Multilingual children in houses where multiple languages are spoken become fluent in both languages. And there are many benefits to it. It seems hard because you have not tried it.

Multilingualism: Multiple Benefits

Multilanguage learners (MLLs) are children learning two (or more) languages at the same time. Multilingualism has multiple benefits.

www.zerotothree.org

Oh yeah. They are not exceptional we are stupid.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Oh yeah. They are not exceptional we are stupid.

Not even about exceptional or stupid. Childrens minds have an affinity for new languages that is lost as we age.

 

[Steve]

Yes, for two reasons I mentioned: 1. Kids brains are hot wired to pick up language. 2. They are immersed in the language using it every day in real life situations.

Learning an L2 and L3 at the same time: help or hinder?

(2020). Learning an L2 and L3 at the same time: help or hinder?. International Journal of Multilingualism. Ahead of Print.

www.tandfonline.com

Is that true, or is that something you just believe to be true because it sounds hard? These guys did a study, based on a couple of presumptions. First, they assert that learning and becoming proficient in a second language makes it easier to learn a third language. Second, that learning a third language while also learning a second language will slow progress in both.

They had Chinese university students, some learning English only, and others learning both English and Russian simultaneously. What they found is that learning the third language had no measurable affect on learning the second language. Learning two languages didn't speed up progress, but also didn't slow it down.

I think most interestingly is that the study found that the people learning Russian and English at the same time were benefiting in the same ways that children learning multiple languages experience.

 

[Steve]

Once again, I just want to make sure my opinion is clear. I am all for specialization. There are all kinds of great things about specializing in one thing vs learning more than one. I'm also not suggesting that learning more than one thing is easier or better than focusing on a single thing. There are challenges learning multiple things at once as opposed to learning just one thing.

My point is that whether you do one or the other is a choice you are making based on practical issues like time and interest, not on some intrinsic inability. If you want to learn more than one style at the same time, you can absolutely do it. No doubt about it. It may take more time, if time is limited. But it may not. As we see from people learning multiple languages at the same time, they benefit from increased motivation, improved ability to learn, and no noticeable slowing of their progress in either language.

My working theory is that when you tell people they can't do things... they will too often believe you. In my opinion, this is very much like telling young girls they aren't good at math or science. And when you see people struggling, because you've told them they will struggle, that just reinforces your own bias.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Is that true, or is that something you just believe to be true because it sounds hard?

I believe the critical period hypothesis is pretty well supported by research and has been since at least since I was in college. (Although recent research may indicate that it lasts longer than previously thought - https://news.mit.edu/2018/cognitive-scientists-define-critical-period-learning-language-0501 )

That's not to say someone can't become fluent in multiple languages as an adult. It just takes a lot more work.

 

[Steve]

I believe the critical period hypothesis is pretty well supported by research and has been since at least since I was in college. (Although recent research may indicate that it lasts longer than previously thought - Cognitive scientists define critical period for learning language )

That's not to say someone can't become fluent in multiple languages as an adult. It just takes a lot more work.

Sure, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. Let's agree that this is true. Whether something is hard or easy, or harder as an adult than as a kid, is a red herring. The actual question is whether it's harder to learn two languages/martial arts styles/other complex systems at the same time, than to learn one at a time? That's the question at hand.

If you go back and re-read my posts with that question in mind, and not the one you all think I'm trying to answer, it will all make more sense (I hope).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Can you do multiple martial arts at the same time? Yes. Can you learn multiple martial arts at the same time? Depends on what you mean by learn. If it's just to learn the techniques, yes, but will still be somewhat confusing for the body to get comfortable with and sort out possibly conflicting principles. I can imagine the difficulty one would have trying to learn two foreign languages at the same time. Some with a special aptitude may be able to do so, especially when young, but for most of us it would be quite a challenge.

As Gerry said, to really get into the particular art, one must delve deeper and explore, and that takes time. But I'll go a little further here, beyond background and culture, into the art itself. To truly learn, it's best to immerse oneself into the subject. To excel in French and really get comfortably and creatively conversant in it, and understand the nuances, sense of humor and irony, it's best to live in France for a year or two. To live, eat, breathe and use it on a daily basis. For it to become natural. In other words, one must become French.

To me, such immersion is necessary to internalize and absorb the essence of the subject, whether language or MA. Once the subject is internalized and has become an integral part of you, the skill is set and solidified. Then, I think it will be no problem to start learning something new.

I can't remember if it was here or elsewhere that I read someone's comment that the hardest language to learn* is your second one - because you're not only learning the language: you're learning how to learn languages and after that subsequent languages will come easier.

*(As an adult, not counting languages you grow up learning from your environment.)

I can't speak to that from personal experience, but my martial arts experience would seem to support it.
In the beginning I was just learning basic kinesthetic awareness of my own body.
Then I was learning the principles and body mechanics of the first art I studied in depth.
Then when I started studying new arts I had a tendency to try carrying over the body mechanics from my first art. (In fairness, a lot of this was due to my arrogance and unwillingness to empty my cup rather than an inability to grasp the new system.)
Nowadays when I study a new art I'm pretty good at identifying the body mechanics and principles which distinguish that art and getting my body to follow those patterns. It still can take some time if they are significantly different from something I've practiced before - but it's a lot quicker than I was able to pick up my first art. This is partially because I've greatly improved my control of my own body and partially because I've greatly improved my ability to see and analyze what's in front of me.

 

[Steve]

I can't remember if it was here or elsewhere that I read someone's comment that the hardest language to learn* is your second one - because you're not only learning the language: you're learning how to learn languages and after that subsequent languages will come easier.

*(As an adult, not counting languages you grow up learning from your environment.)

I can't speak to that from personal experience, but my martial arts experience would seem to support it.
In the beginning I was just learning basic kinesthetic awareness of my own body.
Then I was learning the principles and body mechanics of the first art I studied in depth.
Then when I started studying new arts I had a tendency to try carrying over the body mechanics from my first art. (In fairness, a lot of this was due to my arrogance and unwillingness to empty my cup rather than an inability to grasp the new system.)
Nowadays when I study a new art I'm pretty good at identifying the body mechanics and principles which distinguish that art and getting my body to follow those patterns. It still can take some time if they are significantly different from something I've practiced before - but it's a lot quicker than I was able to pick up my first art. This is partially because I've greatly improved my control of my own body and partially because I've greatly improved my ability to see and analyze what's in front of me.

Okay. Sure. But you're still missing the point at hand. Stay with me for just a second. It's not about whether learning that second language is harder than learning the third language... or makes learning the third language easier. The issue here is a matter of scheduling... of synchronization. Does when you learn the third language matter?

Said another way, let's agree that learning the second language makes learning the third language easier. The question is, does it have to be sequential... learn language 2, and then learn language 3? Or can it be simultaneous? And the answer seems to be that folks experience the same benefits of learning that second language when learning multiple languages at once as when learning them in series.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The actual question is whether it's harder to learn two languages/martial arts styles/other complex systems at the same time, than to learn one at a time? That's the question at hand.

I suspect that the limiting factor there is just time. At least with languages students will understand that each is its own thing and won't get caught up in debating whether it's better to conjugate a verb the French way or the Italian way.

I'm actually in the process of what might be my first successful attempt to achieve functional literacy in a second language. It's always bothered me that I only understand English. I had 6 years of foreign language classes in high school and college, but I only studied enough to get passing grades - which is nowhere near enough work to actually become functional in a language. I've made a few attempts to pick up a new language over the years, but never stuck with them long enough to get anywhere.

However my current attempt seems to be getting somewhere. I'm practicing Spanish every day, averaging over an hour per day, and that's enough that I can actually see my ongoing progress. (I need that positive reinforcement to keep going.) Per Duolingo, my vocabulary is up to 2755 words - which, as far as I can tell from Google, puts me about on the level of a 4 year old. I really hope my motivation holds up - this is much further than I've ever gotten with a second language before and I would be thrilled to get to the point where I could read books or watch tv shows in Spanish.

Adding another language on top of that would be extra cool, but I know that I just don't have the time and motivation for that right now.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Okay. Sure. But you're still missing the point at hand. Stay with me for just a second. It's not about whether learning that second language is harder than learning the third language... or makes learning the third language easier. The issue here is a matter of scheduling... of synchronization. Does when you learn the third language matter?

Said another way, let's agree that learning the second language makes learning the third language easier. The question is, does it have to be sequential... learn language 2, and then learn language 3? Or can it be simultaneous? And the answer seems to be that folks experience the same benefits of learning that second language when learning multiple languages at once as when learning them in series.

I actually wasn't making an argument one way or another on that point. I was just relating my own personal experience in my martial arts training.

First I had to learn basic body awareness and control. Then I had to learn how to understand the underlying concepts of a martial art. Then I had to learn to see how other martial arts did things differently and let go of the notion that the first way I learned was necessarily the "correct" way. Then I had to get a bunch of experience with different systems and get practice moving my body in different ways and seeing how different arts operate.

I actually have students with no prior martial arts experience come in who do just fine studying 2-3 arts at once from the get go. Generally they have a certain degree of natural talent or athletic experience so they know how to use their bodies, time and motivation to put in the hours of hard work each week, and an open mind to absorb what each teacher is showing them. It took me longer to get to the point where I could do that, but I was starting out at the bottom of the bell curve for natural talent.