Breathing in Kata

[Shuri-te]

I would like to find out how people breath when they practice kata. Can anyone share some ideas.

In the Shotokan dojos I train in, the breathing is masked. I was told this comes from the sword arts, where transitions in breathing become openings. Therefore, it is best not to reveal your breathing pattern. The mouth is kept closed and effort is made not to flare the nostrils. The goal is to master and control your breath.

When I studied with an Okinawan master who trained under Shigeru Nakamura, I learned to inhale and exhale crisply and audibly on every technique to maximize power.

I have my own approach which I can share, but would like to learn how others breath in kata.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I tend to breath rather loudly when doing sanchin.
It depends on the form and fromwhich background it comes from because I have some where the breathing is soft ( almost like tai chi ) and others where evey movement (block-punch,trow) is an explosive movement of air.
I breath in through the nose and out through the mouth but I have herd there are systems that do it just the other way

 

[Rick Tsubota]

Originally posted by Shuri-te

When I studied with an Okinawan master who trained under Shigeru Nakamura, I learned to inhale and exhale crisply and audibly on every technique to maximize power.

Who is that master?

 

[Shuri-te]

Teruyuki Higa in Hempstead NY in 1988.

 

[Rick Tsubota]

Originally posted by Shuri-te
Teruyuki Higa in Hempstead NY in 1988.

I remember Higa and Mr.Oyata didn't exactly get along in Okinawa and Mr. Oyata called him out but Higa never accepted the challenge. I also remember reading in The Japan Times about Higa being charged in New York for raping a woman that was wearing a T-Shirt with a photo of Mr. Oyata on it but the case was thrown out because a detective introduced evidence incorrectly.

 

[Shuri-te]

Rick Tsubota said:

Higa and Mr.Oyata didn't exactly get along in Okinawa and Mr. Oyata called him out but Higa never accepted the challenge. I also remember reading in The Japan Times about Higa being charged in New York for raping a woman that was wearing a T-Shirt with a photo of Mr. Oyata on it

I find it sad indeed that these two men's feud resulted in this poor woman's suffering. On the other hand, it is one of the reasons I roll my eyes at the reciting of dojo kun in many schools. It has been my experience that the mastery of karate for many senior karateka, Okinawan, Japanese, and American, has not brought the expected character development and humility as advertized in their dojo kun. I find the overblown egos of some of these men insufferable. Of course many are good decent men, but many others, well, ... But that is grist for another thread.

Higa's class was a good, tough workout. I was coming off a short hiatus in my training, as I had two toddlers at the time and my wife was working weekends, so I really appreciated the conditioning. One interesting aspect to Higa's classes was that you trained alone. He did private lessons for an hour. There was a heavy emphasis on development of power. We did bag work, makiwara work, and strengthening execises (bench press, shoulder press, etc.).

On Saturday mornings, he would hold a general session where we did bogu kumite. He had a couple of students at the time that might well have been linebackers for the football team at Hofstra U, where he also had a dojo. These guys were 5'11, 220lbs or so. And with all the emphasis on power training, these guys could punch. A couple of reverse strikes to the kendo mask from these guys taught you to be extra cautious about hanging around too long after your attack, and to block on your retreat.

My previous sparring experience had been limited to the fantasy world of karate kumite, where after you score a point you are separated. And as we all know, that is certainly not the way a fight unfolds. Bogu is great reality training.

Higa himself must have been obsessed with developing power and probably spent quite a bit of time on the bench. He had really overdeveloped triceps, and pecs that would give Mr. Universe a run for his money. In free sparring, he was remarkably elusive. Maybe from his years in bogu training, he knew how to keep his distance. He didn't have to block much since your techniques would always seem to come up just short.

One time he did kumite with me right after my exhaustive swinging bag work, so I was sucking wind when we started. And it was downhill from there. He liked to respond to an attack by grabbing your shoulders and doing successive knee kicks to your abdomen. And he made it difficult to escape by shifting from side to side, and pulling on your gi in different ways to keep you off balance. Then he ended with a takedown where he rolled me into a well-executed carotid artery choke, while we were both on our backs. Cool stuff.

In retrospect, I believe Higa passed on to me something that was important to Shigeru Nakamura. Bishop writes: "Noted for his powerful punch, Nakamura, who spent much time training on the makiwara was rumored to be able to flake the bark from a pine tree with a single blow. For this reason he was given the nickname Chiki BUSHI, meaning punch knight."

I learned from Higa the value of power training and the importance of bag work. Now I practice as many combinations as I can against a bag. And as I noted earlier, his instruction on proper breathing may well be the best lesson I have ever learned.

Anyone else care to share how they breath in kata?

 

[Rick Tsubota]

Originally posted by Shuri-te



I find it sad indeed that these two men's feud resulted in this poor woman's suffering.

Yes it is sad she. I also find it sad that the man that raped her was let go because of a technicality and what's worse he was a karate teacher.

Originally posted by Shuri-te
On the other hand, it is one of the reasons I roll my eyes at the reciting of dojo kun in many schools. It has been my experience that the mastery of karate for many senior karateka, Okinawan, Japanese, and American, has not brought the expected character development and humility as advertized in their dojo kun. I find the overblown egos of some of these men insufferable.

The reason for their fued was Higa, who was a kohai or junior in the Okinawa Kenpo dojo kept insulting his sempai or senior Mr. Oyata behind his back until one day Mr. Oyata had enough of it and called him out. Wisely Higa never took the challenge and has avoided Mr. Oyata to this day. I never heard Mr. Oyata say anything bad about Higa or any karateka before, but there are plenty of karateka in Okinawa that don't care for Higa's character.

Originally posted by Shuri-te
Anyone else care to share how they breath in kata?

When I trained in Okinawa Kenpo in Okinawa the breathing was done in a natural manner. It was never forced or controled. We were told to breath naturally beause our bodies know when we need air.

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

During sanchi I breathe like I am swimming (the american crawl technique).Sip the air and then slow soft consistent exhales. While I have gotten reprimanded by some instructors, I have never been told not to do this by those who have trained with some one or in Okinowa. I have always been told that long hard inhalation and exhalation indicates bad condition(s).

 

[Shuri-te]

AWP (Angry White Pajamas)

Sanchin has pretty unique breathing. But there are other kata in Uechi Ryu that have "non-sanchin" breathing. Can you share with me how in your system you breathe.

I have had exposure to Uechi Ryu with a 6th dan that has a dojo in Baltimore, Sheldon Dunn. I recall a fair amount of Sanchin like breathing throughout the kata, but most of the movements did not have this exaggerated breathing.

Thanks.

 

[Sauzin]

Ah yes, Okinawan full contact sparring gear. I'll tell you, those masks don't stop the pain of impact as much as I thought they would. And that chest protecter isn't all that cooshie either.

Back to the question. In our dojo we breath in through the nostrils and out through the mouth. We breath deeply into the abdomen and attempt not to expand our upper chest much. Most breathing is done quietly with an emphasis at masking its obvious nature. Breathing is done with the idea that a constant flowing source of air in and out of the abdomen done correctly brings a peaceful and calm state even when the strongest punch is being executed.

-Paul Holsinger

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

Which exaggerated breathing are you speaking of? (please pardon me Im a little slow on the uptake). My teachers have always been on my case not to breathe hard and artificially. All of the senseishave been telling me to inhale and exhale softly as well as slowly. They tell me to breathe naturally in all my other katas and excercises as I do in sanchin.

And If I may, hyperventilating during any form, excercise or kata will fool the body into thinking that it has more oxygen than it does, and increases muscle activity and consumption of Oxygen at the same time.

Sorry for not answering the first question , but Sauzin Pretty much answered the question better than I could.

 

[Sauzin]

When I was practicing Go-Ju-Ryu Sanchin was done with "heavy breathing". What they do is tense the neck and the air way in such a way as to make a "heeea" sound. In Sanchin many Go-Ju practitioners work on exhaling completely after finishing the punch and return block. They often make a “heea” then at the end of the movement a "tssste" sound when doing this and tensing their neck to an extreme. They do this to emphasize and focus the muscle tension (inside and out) that they use to protect themselves form the head down. You could easily jam the end of a bo into the neck of an experienced Go-Ju Sanchin practitioner and not even phase him. I have seen some Uechi stylists make an emphasized "Tssssss" sound when they perform the spear hands in their Sanchin. I suppose some schools differ.

I no longer practice my kata with these breathing techniques, though when my instructor is throwing me around I still use them on occasion when I need to absorb something that involves a great amount of impact. (This happens quite often now that I think about it).

 

[Shuri-te]

Sauzin,

Do you breathe in and out on every movement, or do you group some movements together and breathe in at the beginning and out across the group?

 

[Sauzin]

Well let me answer this question from 2 directions as I’m not sure which specifically you want to know about. I’ll start with describing Sanchin and then with other kata.

The most common way for Sanchin to be practiced in Go-Ju is for there to be two breaths for each movement set. One for the punch, then a quick inhale and another exhale for the block. In my school (which represented the minority) we did the movement in one full breath. We breathed in while retracting the punch, then exhaled 80% when extending the punch and another 20% with the block. It was said that this was the original way Miyagi used to practice Sanchin, but that is a debated topic.

The Sanchin that Odo practiced is performed with two breaths. One for the punch and one for the block. Of course Odo’s Sanchin is different in many other ways. Especially the ending. I particularly like the dynamic tension Odo practiced. He had a way of working his muscles tighter, then tighter, then even tighter in rotating wave like motions.

Now for the rest of kata this is a different matter. There is a full breath for every emphasized strike or block, however there are other movements where a partial exhale is performed. For example in Odo’s Seisan there are places where a shuffle occurs followed by 3 consecutive punches. There is a partial exhale on each of the punches with a complete exhale on the last following a ki-iye. Inhales are performed during transition with emphasis on masking their obvious nature. So in answer to your question, I guess the second is closest to what we do. We do group some movements together, but emphasized strikes and blocks have a full exhale associated with them. Still the rule remains that there is always an exhale on any movement were there is potential for impact, or when a limb is extending or moving outward. It’s just not always a full exhale, this depending on the movement set’s timing and emphasis.

Thank-you and I hope this answered the question.

-Paul

 

[Sauzin]

Another note on Sanchin breathing.

I was discussing this question with my sensei the other day and he brought up another point. He asked “Do you know why Go-Ju has its students breath so loudly?” He answered. “It is so the teacher can hear when the students are breathing or tensing incorrectly.”

I found this to be an interesting point.

-Paul

 

[tshadowchaser]

My instructor will oftenl isten to sanchin rather than watch it to hear how much breath is exhaled and if is from the lower abdomen or higher. The sounds are different He has other ways of testing it but thats a diffeent story and not about how we breath.

 

[Shuri-te]

Sauzin,

Thanks for the info on breathing.

What I am trying to better understand regarding the breathing is how often inhaling occurs.

You wrote that exhales were distributed across several movements in a sequence. That makes great sense to me. Inhale at the beginning of a sequence and exhale through the entire group of movements.

Some kata has gotten to the point, especially in Japan, where each movement is treated as a unique entity, each with its own inhale and exhale. IMO, this makes little sense as the movements are to be done, in fighting, as a flurry, so one cannot inahle and exhale on each one. In kata, we are trying to replicate what we would do in fighting, right down to the breathing.

I have worked on breathing so an inhale always occurs at the beginning, and crisp exhales occur across the sequence.

 

[Sauzin]

My thoughts exactly.

There are some emphasized movements that get a full breath like a lunge punch or a "1000lb drop", but most do not require a full breath, especially when kata is performed at full speed. You would hyperventilate otherwise.

Now the challenge in saying that breathing occurs at the beginning of a sequence of moves is defining what is the beginning and what is the end of a sequence.

What I do, usually follows a few guild lines. Breathing in comes in the transition usually as a movement to the side or away from the opponent occurs, during a transitional movement that is very soft and evasive, or in a preparatory movement just before an emphasized movement with a full breath.

For example when I perform crescent steps the breath-in occurs as the feet are coming together and you are moving away from the opponent. Or in Ananaku where about midway through the kata there is a step behind and throw with an elbow thrust, the breath-in occurs during the step behind. In cases where there is no foot movement between breaths and you have two distinctly emphasized movements, like say in the Nihachi's where you will find a ki-iye punch and then a knife hand block directly afterwards. The breath-in occurs as the hip shifts the torso to face the new direction or opponent, just before the knife hand block. Which depending upon the angle of the attacker can actually move your head off line.

As I understand, it is important not to reveal a constant pattern of when you will breath in and when you will breath out to your opponent. The timing is such that at the moment your opponent believes you to breath in, sees the opening for an attack, and commits, is the moment that the breath is done and the counter commences. Subtle changes in evasion and setup then rapid counter attack goes "baaaaaaaaaaah-baaaa-bam!" The breath in occurs during the first portion, usually an evasion, the second is a setup, and the third is the attack. Slow, fast, then instantaneous. This acceleration is always just an instant faster then what the opponent is able to catch up with.

At least this is the way I've been taught. :asian:

 

[Mr.karate]

Has anyone her heard that the hard breathing done in Sanchin kata can be detremental to a persons health? What are your thoughts on this?

Justin

 

[Shuri-te]

I am not sure it is the breathing. It may be excessive Sanchin itself. In Sanchin you tense your muscles, and when they are tense, bloodflow to the nerves is restricted. Years of practicing Sanchin can slowly damage the nerves. Bishop mentions this in his book.