Body method

drop bear

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So for example. This is francis nagnnou, who is objectively one of the hardest punchers in the world doing shadow sparring.


So this is what power generation looks like outside the requirements of actually generating power. But without context. Nobody would be able to tell if he could punch hard or not from that clip.

 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I guess you think you are more qualify than the judges in Olympics.
What you are missing is that it's qualified for different things. Sport kata judges are pretty open that they're looking for things other than just power and speed. So you can't assume that's what they're looking at at an olympic level.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Sport kata judges are pretty open that they're looking for things other than just power and speed.
Agree! There are many guideline besides power and speed such as:

- Eyes follow the major hand.
- Back foot points toward the power generation direction.
- All body parts start and stop at the same time.
- Art flavor (this is very abstract).
- ...

For example, you will lose points if your

- eyes look at east, but you punch north.
- punch north, but your back foot points toward southeast.
- body stop, but your arm is still moving.
- move like a robot without art flavor.
- ...
 
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Alan0354

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Well show and tell. Go win some fights in competition, show how much power on heavy bag. Talk is cheap. Or at least show some videos that have more snap and speed than her. Even the best one shown here so far is not in the same league. Yet to find any kung fu punching bag that is impressive.

Like I repeat again and again, after Bruce Lee died, so many "masters" came out and said they can beat Lee, where were they when Lee was alive? Where are they on UFC?

It's so easy to armchair quarterbacking and that is all here so far.
 
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Wing Woo Gar

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Curious, who does this type of training? I have never seen an art that trains this way.


I like to teach our hip throws without arms. Some of the throws you can do without arms or hands at all... if uke just maintains his grip on your gi. Other throws, we use just one finger to "hook" uke's gi to do the throw. The idea with these training drills, is to use the body movement to do the throw, not the arms.
Yep I learned Tai chi this way. Sometimes no arms at all. Just remember the foot work and postures. It informed me that I had been letting the top move the bottom. It was a very useful lesson in alignment and rooting that improved my Kung fu.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Could you explain what you mean by highest level?

Tibetan crane uses big movement in a similar way, but it is meant to be a training mechanism for the student to learn full-body connection. We do this in our basics and fundamentals as well as our forms. However, it is understood that the big movement it is not the most efficient when it is time to fight, so the big, exaggerated movement is reduced or eliminated but if the student had been training correctly and with the correct understanding, he should still be able to get tremendous power from the short movement. He has learned how to harness full-body power and can do it instantly with short movement.

We continue to use big movement as we train our basics and forms because it is always in need of polishing and development. That road has no end. But using it is different.

So I dont know how to define whether or not this is the form at its highest level. In my opinion, it is simply how the form is done in order to develop the desired capabilities within the theory and structure of the system. The form is an exercise meant to help you develop your skill. It is meant to simply be done within the context of practice. The form isnt a performance. It is never finished, as a product. We just do it, always. In this way it is similar to the heavy bag: you just keep working with it as a tool to develop your skill, which is never finished.
YES and YES and YES.
 

Alan0354

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So for example. This is francis nagnnou, who is objectively one of the hardest punchers in the world doing shadow sparring.


So this is what power generation looks like outside the requirements of actually generating power. But without context. Nobody would be able to tell if he could punch hard or not from that clip.

The following is a joke................

BUT BUT, he doesn't rotate enough, he only do +/-45 deg, that's not good enough!!! He flare out his elbows too much!!! I don;'t see him using the leg and shoulder enough................ 不
不 不 不

Seriously, one punch says it all. Lifting a 200lbs+ person off the ground. No need for any explanation. This, is the definition of show and tell. Lifting someone off the ground by one punch in UFC(looks like it's octagon).
 

Wing Woo Gar

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We used to train one inch punches all the time. Focusing on using the power of the body to really smack something.
To me, its speed. As for power, that remains in question.

I hate to comment too much since I dont study Japanese karate and it isnt fair to judge one system by the norms of another. But what I see in that video is a lack of connection between the upper and lower body. She changes positions and assumes postures, but there is no work being done by the feet and legs, that would give power to the hands. The postures themselves arent what is important. It is the transitions between postures that create power, where the real work gets done. The way she shifts from posture to posture does not convince me that she is doing that work. The result is that to my eye, the power is all generated from the shoulders and arms and fails to harness the power of the legs and torso.
I agree, it is a fast snap, but connection is lost in the middle union. As you stated, Im not a karate practitioner, so I dont move in this way, and thusly Im not able to give accurate assessment of whether or not there is any power in it.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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IMO, this video is much more pleasant to watch than the one you provide.

Well I am biased here. I like this video but I cant even stand to watch the one where they come up on the legs to shoot the punch. That runs counter to the way I move and think about power generation. They are pushing with the legs rather than pulling and it is painful to watch.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I think speed up is minimal(yes, it looks a little odd). But the more important thing is the moves are pre arranged or scripted. So it looks more unnatural to me than anything else. It's not a real sparring.
Well the karate kata lady was doing a pre arranged form too. Am I misunderstanding your meaning here?
 

Wing Woo Gar

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So for example. This is francis nagnnou, who is objectively one of the hardest punchers in the world doing shadow sparring.


So this is what power generation looks like outside the requirements of actually generating power. But without context. Nobody would be able to tell if he could punch hard or not from that clip.

When see this I think his structure is solid and his body moves all together from the feet up. I think its pretty obvious he has the goods, but the hardest recorded punch I would never have guessed.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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You may snap your punch for jab and cross. But you can't snap your punch for hook, uppercut, and overhand.

This clip has no snaps. Does this clip show power?

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Well I am biased here. I like this video but I cant even stand to watch the one where they come up on the legs to shoot the punch. That runs counter to the way I move and think about power generation. They are pushing with the legs rather than pulling and it is painful to watch.
Could you point out which move in that clip (at what time period)?
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Any comment on this power generation method?

Adam-Baji-drop-Jin.gif
 

JowGaWolf

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She punch hard, more so than those videos you shown. I am searching for kung fu heavy bag punching to see. If you have any impressive ones in kung fu punching on heavy bag, please post it.
I can show you hard punching on a heavy bag. What do you specifically want to see other than just punching a bag hard?
 

Alan0354

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Any comment on this power generation method?

Adam-Baji-drop-Jin.gif
If you are punching down on the guy, that works. Not if you are standing up fighting someone that is standing.

This power generation reminds me when I was practicing iron palm slapping down on steel ball bearings. You use your stomach area muscle to push down while you slap down, tightening the body downwards to add power on the downward slap. (And they actually call it "CHI" to add the mystique) BUT, if I stand and slap on the heavy bag(like stand up fighting), IT IS COMPLETELY USELESS. I don't get ANY MORE POWER after years of practicing. All I got is Carpal Tunnel on both hands. I had surgery on one hand, I still carrying that on the right hand. Surgery will stop me from training for 1/2 a year and was very painful. I cannot afford to have that. So I am just weathering it out.

This, I am saying for years of iron palm 3 times a week, 8 to 10mins each time. Too many deceiving things in kung fu. You really have to use common sense to judge, not listening to all the BS. I live it and I live to regret it.

Do you know, you keep coming up with different things. THis is all very simple PHYSICS. If you just stop and think for a moment, you will get most of the answer instead of this, how you turn the body and all that. It's physics that supposed to be taught from day one.

Again, show a clip of long punch on kicking bag, or a real fight that one punch lift the opponent into the air. One punch speaks a 1000 words. I am still waiting.

This is just one of many knockout in MMA( Bellator, not UFC). Those are heavy weight

Look at a lot of knockout by punch, not exactly picture perfect according to the "experts". Imagine you DROP a 200+lbs guy with one of those LAZY punch, how much power are those lazy sloppy punch. BUT IT WORKS, ONE PUNCH SPEEKS A 1000 WORDS.
 

Alan0354

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@Alan0354
Kung Fu Power Generation.

Kung Fu Power Generation

Kung Fu Power Generation
Thanks

I'll watch them next week, this is my week off, I am spending time with my little girl(grand daughter), teaching her how to change tires, wood work, electrical wiring etc. Only thing I do is finger exercise(typing on keyboard). :))
 

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