Bo katas

[JackSmith]

I just learned a bo form called 'shushi no kun sho' . I believe the one I was taught might have been changed slightly from the original. I write this because I have seen it done other ways. Just as a curiousity, I would like to know how to do the original.

I am interested in learning other traditional bo forms as well. I know there is 'shushi no kon dai' etc. A resource you could point me to would be great. My instructor is very open to his students exploring this stuff on our own.

Thank you for your time.
-Jack

 

[arnisador]

In Fumio Demura's 1976 book "Bo: Karate Weapon of Self-defense" he lists a number of bo kata, starting with Shushi-No-Kon-Dai and Shushi-No-Kon-Sho. He implies that Shushi is a proper name, the developer of the form; kon is a synonym for bo, hence, roughly, Shushi's Greater Bo Kata and Shushi's Minor Bo Kata, respectively. At the end of the book he presents Shushi-No-Kon-Sho pictorially.

The book is available at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...7555370/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-4044683-1214358

It is also available together with a video.

 

[Darryl Garrick]

Hi there,

We the members of the IOKA (UK), have a kata called Shushi No Kon. Though I believe that this is entirely different to the one that you practice. A video of this kata is obtainable from Century Martial Arts (by Mikio Nishiuchi ), look for Panther Videos.

Have you done the Bunkai, for your kata? We will be doing a demonstration in Sheffield early July, can't wait

 

[Shinzu]

i have learned shushi no kun also through shotokan. i have also learned several different staff forms through TSD. it is a remarkable weapon. simple yet so complex.

 

[kenmpoka]

This kata is probably of one the oldest. There are many variations either under "Dai" or "Sho" or from school to school. Some instructors have also put their personal signature on the kata as well. this is common practice in Okinawa but not in Japan.

The oldest form of this Kata is Shushi no Kon and belongs to Shinpo Matayoshi group and can be found through Nishiuchi's (sp?) tapes.

FYI, the Kata described in Demura sensei's book under the heading of "Shushi no kon Sho", is actually a form of "Koshiki shushi no Kon" and the name is a misprint.

Isshin Ryu group also practice a very old version of this Kata "Shishi no Kon no Dai", Yes different spelling, practiced and taught at times by Shinken Taira, Shimabuku Sensei's Kobudo instructor.

I hope that I was helpful.

Respectfully,

:asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I have a couple of tapes that show a few kata's and they go over the bunkai for each movement. One thing I have notice, is they don't mention striking the hands. I know this would be difficult to practice. But my though came from escrima where they practice defanging the snake. I figure the bo and escrima are very similar and what you can do with one you should be able to do with the other. Is this correct thinking or am I wrong, any input would be great.
Bob :asian:

 

[arnisador]

In FMA we use the sabat (staff) to strike the hands, but also in ways similar to what you'd see in Okinawan bo systems.

 

[Cthulhu]

I'm not familiar with specific bo kata, so you'll have to forgive me. However, I've seen specific techniques where, after making contact with the other opponent's staff, you slide yours down the length of his bo, striking the hands. This will also work if your opponent has a bo and you have tonfa, sai, kama, etc...just slide down the bo and hit the hands.

Personally, I like the FMA idea of zoning and hitting the hands directly.

Cthulhu

 

[Kempojujutsu]

How important is it to learn bo kata's. Or should you be more concern with knowing how to defend from different angles. My approach here is more from the escrima, where they have no kata's that I know of. It is base off what angle they are attacking and how your are holding the stick. Also would one kata (Shu shi no kon) be enough or should one learn more than one kata.
Bob :asian:

 

[Wertle]

One of my favorite bo against bo takedowns is, after a block and dodge, grab the other person's bo and your bo together, crunching their hands between. This is great for manipulating them off balance and into throws and counterjoints, but be careful when training! Too much crunchage=pain >_<

On the kata end, I can't really give much help, as we do freeform kata. But even if your system doesn't do freeform kata, it might be something good to practice on your own, to develop good flow and visualization and handling and all that.

I have a bo-related question, so hopefully it's okay to throw it out in this thread. What is the weight range for the bos that you use? I have my own that is quite comfortable for my size, but at my school there's a bo tucked away which I believe is made out of balsa wood. It's extremely light and incredibly difficult to work with. Do you find lighter or heavier bos easier to work with? Do you think it'd be a good exercise to work with a range of much heavier and much lighter bos than you normally use?

 

[Kempojujutsu]

The bo I use is nothing special. It is a fighting bo that I order from Century. It is 6ft. with tapper ends. When I test for 3rd black my instructor did not what us to perform kata's. He what us to demostrate how to use the bo. Different blocks strikes etc. So I quest this would be free form.
Bob :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

The bo I use is nothing special. It is a fighting bo that I order from Century. It is 6ft. with tapper ends. When I test for 3rd black my instructor did not what us to perform kata's. He what us to demostrate how to use the bo. Different blocks strikes etc. So I quest this would be free form.
Bob :asian:

Just out of curiosity................. what is the difference between a "fighting bo" and a non "fighting bo" and why are they different?

 

[kenmpoka]

RyuShikan,

A fighting bo is used for the actual application of the techniques, be it bunkai, two man sets, etc. It is usually made out of a stronger wood that can withstand some punishment.

A Kata bo is used solely to perform kata, be it at a tournament or practice, so it is free of dings and splinters. It is usually lighter and made out of a more elegant wood.

:asian:

 

[kenmpoka]

As you know, in most traditional systems, techniques are transmitted through Kata. So in my opinion, it is important to select a few bo kata with diverse techniques from different schools of bojutsu. Of course basics (kihon) and Hojo Undo are equally if not more important to develop timing, power, snap, and stamina.

:asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

You beat me to the draw on the difference on the fighting and kata bo's. Also thanks on the info on the kata's. Here is another question? I have theses tapes with 4 different kata's. Should someone learn all 4 or would 1 or 2 be the best. The kata's are Shu shi no kon, Saku Gawa no kon, Cho un no kon, Tsu ken no kon.
Bob :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by kenmpoka

RyuShikan,

A fighting bo is used for the actual application of the techniques, be it bunkai, two man sets, etc. It is usually made out of a stronger wood that can withstand some punishment.

A Kata bo is used solely to perform kata, be it at a tournament or practice, so it is free of dings and splinters. It is usually lighter and made out of a more elegant wood.

:asian:

I guess I use a "fighting bo" for both since mine is pretty sturdy and gets beat on pretty hard and I use the same one for kata.

 

[arnisador]

Having a "competition bo" for kata competitions at tournaments is not uncommon it seems. I've seen colored bos, multi-colored ones, see-through plexiglass--all of them light for speed.

I don't actually like it--I'd rather see them doing the form with something that wouldn't break in an actual fight and would have some impact when it hit--but I see it often.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

Having a "competition bo" for kata competitions at tournaments is not uncommon it seems. I've seen colored bos, multi-colored ones, see-through plexiglass--all of them light for speed.

I don't actually like it--I'd rather see them doing the form with something that wouldn't break in an actual fight and would have some impact when it hit--but I see it often.

I agree.
I think using a lighter bo for kata/tournaments is kind of a cop-out since you only use it for show and "technically" it is not a weapon that you can or do actually use.

I saw one guy at a demo that had a pencil thin bo that seemed to be made out of balsa wood it was so light.

 

[kenmpoka]

The ones that you mentioned are from "Matayoshi" group. Almost all systems start with Shushi no Kon or a variation of. It is a good kata to build strong basics. Sakugawa and Choun are definitely a must. Tsuken Bo a good kata to develop snap and speed.

Just make sure you don't rush through learning them all at once. Although at the surface they look similar, they have different characteristics and timing. Give a minimum of three months of solid practice between each. Also look into Taira, Yamani Ryu, and Ufuchikuden systems to expand your knowledge.

It is always best to learn under a qualified instructor if you have access to one. It is also better to find an instructor that teaches Kobudo as his/her primary art as oppose to a karate teacher that teaches Kobudo as well.

Btw, where do you live?

:asian:

 

[kenmpoka]

I agree with both of you gentlemen in regards to a so called tooth pick bo. A kata bo should mainly be free of dings and splinters.

In a lot of open tournaments you see the competitors showing off with a lot of fancy and speedy moves that would not be possible with a proper traditional bo.

:asian: