bluewaveschool

[puunui]

bluewaveschool

By the way, I'm curious about your screenname, bluewave school. Why did you choose that? Are you affiliated with the Chung Do Kwan? I ask because I am a Chung Do Kwan regional director, the only non-korean to ever be appointed to that position by the way, a position I have held since January 1987.

 

[bluewaveschool]

This has come up before, but to save you from digging through threads, here it is -

From as far back as anyone can remember, it has been told to us that our school comes from the Chung Do Kwan lineage. My instructors told us this, and their instructor also told us this. It is also handwritten on a packet from the mid 1980s that was given to my father and I in the mid 1990s, to learn some of the Korean terms from. HOWEVER... and this is where not having a link back, from instructors passing away/moving away, it gets muddled. We do the Chang Hon form set. Yes, I am aware (after joining here) that the CDK does not do that form set. I have also learned that Gen. Choi recruited heavily from the CDK instructors to learn the Chang Hon set and send out into the world to spread TKD. We were also, pre-power struggle, part of the ATA, which was co-founded by CDK Master Kang Suh Chong. We nominally held a membership with them until they wanted to get really greedy shortly after my training started (1994) and then cut all ties with them. We've been completely independent since them.

SO.... Did the founder of our school teach the CDK lineage because he himself was taught by one of the CDK sent over by Gen. Choi? Was he a student of Kang Suh Chong? Did he learn from an ATA master, or did he join ATA due to (originally) doing the same form set?

No one knows. I emailed a guy that MIGHT be the son of my grandmaster, i suppose would be the term, though calling him master would likely get me smacked upside the head. I'm trying to get in touch with him to see if I can't find out who/where he learned from. I do know that we do the forms different than the ITF guys. No sine wave, and Earl mentioned something (the tension movements i believe) being a CDK thing, definately NOT an ITF thing. Anyways, I picked the name before I began really learning the history of TKD. I like reading the history, which is why I asked for books/interviews/articles/etc.

Also, before you ask how can i not know who founded my school - It's a class at a YMCA that has been handed down from instructor to student when the instructor is ready to retire and feels a worthy student is ready to take on the class.

 

[leadleg]

I always associated Chung Do Kwan with GM Won Kuk Lee not Gen. Choi, but since the unification noone uses that name much anymore.Dr. Cha Sok Park used to say he was Chung Do Kwan but he did KKW TKD and forms.
@ Puunui, does the Chung Do Kwan have a crest and such as the Moo Duk Kwan has? I also trained in that style but WTF not ITF through GM Richard Chun.

 

[chungdokwan123]

I always associated Chung Do Kwan with GM Won Kuk Lee not Gen. Choi, but since the unification noone uses that name much anymore.Dr. Cha Sok Park used to say he was Chung Do Kwan but he did KKW TKD and forms.
@ Puunui, does the Chung Do Kwan have a crest and such as the Moo Duk Kwan has? I also trained in that style but WTF not ITF through GM Richard Chun.

Chung Do Kwan was formed in 1944 by GM Won Kuk Lee.

http://www.acdkl.org/

This is my association.

 

[puunui]

HOWEVER... and this is where not having a link back, from instructors passing away/moving away, it gets muddled. We do the Chang Hon form set. Yes, I am aware (after joining here) that the CDK does not do that form set. I have also learned that Gen. Choi recruited heavily from the CDK instructors to learn the Chang Hon set and send out into the world to spread TKD.

What happened was that when the Oh Do Kwan was being developed in the ROK Army, the Chung Do Kwan member's rank was recognized more easily, due to the close relationship between GM NAM Tae Hi being a Chung Do Kwan member. But those from other kwans had to be retested for their ranks in the Oh Do Kwan, which upset those other kwan members. The Modern History book speaks about this briefly, in the Oh Do Kwan section.

We were also, pre-power struggle, part of the ATA, which was co-founded by CDK Master Kang Suh Chong. We nominally held a membership with them until they wanted to get really greedy shortly after my training started (1994) and then cut all ties with them. We've been completely independent since them.

GM KANG Suh Chong was the Kuk Mu Kwan founder. The Kuk Mu Kwan was based in Incheon due to GM Kang's relationship with the ROK Navy UDT (underwater Demo Teams) units. The Kuk Mu Kwan followed the ITF or Oh Do Kwan curriculum, which were the Chang Hon forms. The ATA's GM LEE Haeng Ung was a student of GM Kang, as were others who opened up the Osan AFB dojang.

SO.... Did the founder of our school teach the CDK lineage because he himself was taught by one of the CDK sent over by Gen. Choi? Was he a student of Kang Suh Chong? Did he learn from an ATA master, or did he join ATA due to (originally) doing the same form set?

Who is the founder of your school, and who was his teacher?

No one knows. I emailed a guy that MIGHT be the son of my grandmaster, i suppose would be the term, though calling him master would likely get me smacked upside the head. I'm trying to get in touch with him to see if I can't find out who/where he learned from.

Who is that son of your grandmaster, and why would you get smacked upside the head?

I do know that we do the forms different than the ITF guys. No sine wave, and Earl mentioned something (the tension movements i believe) being a CDK thing, definately NOT an ITF thing. Anyways, I picked the name before I began really learning the history of TKD.

I would say that a more accurate name for your lineage would be Oh Do Kwan or Kuk Mu Kwan, rather than Chung Do Kwan. The Chung Do Kwan never really adopted the Chang Hon forms. I asked GM PARK Hae Man about that and he said that he sincerely tried to learn the Chang Hon forms, but quit after six months because the forms did not make sense to him. In GM LEE Won Kuk's book, published in 1968, it showed for the first time the new KTA forms, the Palgwae and Yudanja "hyung" as it was called back then. One thing, the Koryo form was the older version, which was done on a straight line up and down, without any branches. That version was replaced with the present Koryo when the Taeguek poomsae were introduced in 1972.

I like reading the history, which is why I asked for books/interviews/articles/etc.

Go read the Modern History article, that will give you the best overview. I would print it out and read it at least three or four times. Stay away from Dakin Burdick articles because all his stuff will do is confuse you.

Also, before you ask how can i not know who founded my school - It's a class at a YMCA that has been handed down from instructor to student when the instructor is ready to retire and feels a worthy student is ready to take on the class.

I don't see how that would explain why you don't know who founded your school.

 

[Tez3]

Is this an interrogation? :uhohh:

 

[puunui]

I always associated Chung Do Kwan with GM Won Kuk Lee not Gen. Choi, but since the unification noone uses that name much anymore.

A lot of people still use the name Chung Do Kwan, but more for relationship purposes, not curriculum. The Chung Do Kwan has fully adopted and endorses the Kukkiwon curriculum and Kukkiwon forms.

Dr. Cha Sok Park used to say he was Chung Do Kwan but he did KKW TKD and forms.

Dr. Park was originally a Judo man (you could tell by looking at his cauliflower ears). He had a close relationship with GM PARK Hae Man, who he called his "brother". I saw a Chung Do Kwan 8th Dan marble certificate in his office about ten years ago.

@ Puunui, does the Chung Do Kwan have a crest and such as the Moo Duk Kwan has? I also trained in that style but WTF not ITF through GM Richard Chun.

Yes, if you search google images under chung do kwan, I am sure you will find it. It looks like the Moo Duk Kwan emblem without the leaves going up the sides. People used to argue that there was no connection between the Chung Do Kwan and Moo Duk Kwan, but all you have to do is look at the Moo Duk Kwan logo to see the connection. GM HWANG Kee's Chung Do Kwan rank is 6th guep white belt.

 

[leadleg]

In GM LEE Won Kuk's book, published in 1968, it showed for the first time the new KTA forms, the Palgwae and Yudanja "hyung" as it was called back then. One thing, the Koryo form was the older version, which was done on a straight line up and down, without any branches. [/quote]
I learned this version and still teach it today as Koryo 1, I got it along with chulki cho dan, bal chek(basai),tae jul,5 kibons and 5 kichos from a senior student of GM Richard Chun.

 

[granfire]

Is this an interrogation? :uhohh:

Ah, good, I am not the only one....

 

[puunui]

Is this an interrogation? :uhohh:

If he wants to represent himself as a Chung Do Kwan member, then I have an obligation to my seniors and to GM LEE Won Kuk and GM UHM Woon Kyu that he follows the Chung Do Kwan membership oath.

 

[puunui]

I learned this version and still teach it today as Koryo 1.

A lot of people still teach that form and call it Koryo 1.

 

[leadleg]

I want to see that oath, who appointed you regional director, what does the region encompass. Also who is the kwan leader. Are there any other regional directors out there?
I am curious as I have a certificate signed by GM Won Kuk Lee from Dr.Cha Sok Park he called it a founders certificate,it has no mention of Chung Do Kwan on it. As you must know there was a picture circulating aroround with GM Lee sitting in a chair with various high ranking Taekwondoin including Gen. Choi,who was sitting next to GM Lee,obviously in a junoir posisition.

 

[dortiz]

Leadleg,
howdy!! I studied with Dr. Park back on Washington Street in Falls Church. he and I stayed friends up until the end. Sadly I was supposed to have lunch with him just as he passed. My wife still talks dearly about him.


David Ortiz

 

[puunui]

I want to see that oath, who appointed you regional director, what does the region encompass. Also who is the kwan leader. Are there any other regional directors out there?

Here is the membership oath:

• We, as members, train our spirits and bodies according to the strict code.
• We, as members, are united in mutual friendship.
• We, as members, will comply with regulations and obey instructors.

I was appointed regional director for the Hawaii region by GM UHM Woon Kyu. The certificate, signed by GM Uhm, is dated January 1, 1987. GM Uhm has been president of the Chung Do Kwan since 1959, and I think I have every certificate that the Chung Do Kwan issues to its members, including dan, citations, certificate of appointments, life membership, a grandmaster one, etc. The director for Kentucky, GM LEE Kwan Sung passed away and I don't think he was replaced. I think most states have a Chung Do Kwan regional director, but as far as I know, I am the only non-Korean, appointed over many Korean born seniors who also live here. I posted the list of regional directors once, but I can't find it now.

I am curious as I have a certificate signed by GM Won Kuk Lee from Dr.Cha Sok Park he called it a founders certificate,it has no mention of Chung Do Kwan on it.

I have those too, which are not Chung Do Kwan dan certificates. The Chung Do Kwan is still active, as are all the other Kwans, with I believe the exception of the Kang Duk Won. It's president, GM LEE Kum Hong, who was a Past WTF Secretary General, died recently, and I don't think anyone will be taking his place. GM Cha Sok PARK got a lot of dan certificates for people from GM LEE Won Kuk over the years. Most were lower dans, 5th Dan or lower. One person from England got a 7th Dan I think from GM Lee.

GM Lee lived in Arlington, Virginia on North Madison Street.

You know I found him? I heard he lived in the Virginia area, so I called up the Virginia Haninhwe (Korean Society) and they gave me his address. I sent him a Christmas card every year for five or so years, not expecting anything, not asking for anything, just wishing him a Merry Christmas and telling him that I appreciated everything that he had done for Taekwondo. Then after five or so years, he sent me one back and asked me to contact him.

As you must know there was a picture circulating aroround with GM Lee sitting in a chair with various high ranking Taekwondoin including Gen. Choi,who was sitting next to GM Lee,obviously in a junoir posisition.

No, I haven't seen that, or if I did, I can't recall off the top of my head what you are talking about. If you can find it, can you post a link to it? Thanks.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

If he wants to represent himself as a Chung Do Kwan member

I don't see him calling himself a member anywhere, although I may be wrong. There are plenty of people of people who have lineage through the Chung Do Kwan who are not members - great swathes of the ITF included.

The Chung Do Kwan is still active

As a social club? Is that not what the rules of KKW limit them to, Uhm Woon Kyu himself having said this IIRC.

At the risk of using wikipedia:

According to Hae Man Park, Vice-President of Chung Do Kwan (retired), today Chung Do Kwan is a social friendship club that endorses 100% the curriculum of the Kukkiwon system

 

[leadleg]

Thank you for the information, I do not have or know anyone who has this picture. I wish I had a copy but I really did not expect the owner of the copy I saw to pass so soon. I can say to everyone that if you have the ear of any knowledgable GM's ask what you want now, get that private lesson NOW, as you never know when its all gone.

 

[puunui]

Thank you for the information, I do not have or know anyone who has this picture. I wish I had a copy but I really did not expect the owner of the copy I saw to pass so soon. I can say to everyone that if you have the ear of any knowledgable GM's ask what you want now, get that private lesson NOW, as you never know when its all gone.

There is a picture of GM Lee speaking on a microphone with General Choi sitting at the table, but I don't know of any group shots with General Choi and GM Lee. The photo with GM Lee on the microphone looks like the time he visited Korea in 1967. General Choi wasn't around during the 1940's, when GM Lee was actively teaching at the Chung Do Kwan.

 

[IcemanSK]

I posted the list of regional directors once, but I can't find it now.

As a Chung Do Kwan student myself, I would love to see that list, also. When you can find it.

 

[leadleg]

This was one of those classic group shots with the master in a chair ,centered and others sitting on the floor or standing behind, its been awhile since I saw it,15 years or more,it could be from the 60's.
I have a picture of GM Lee teaching in a buisness suit when he was quite old, it is on a brochure from Dr.Parks Oriental Martial Arts School.
Dave would know this brochure as the one with Dr Park smashing pavers with his forehead

 

[puunui]

Found it. This is a list of the US Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan Union officers and directors from 2000:

President (Hwe Jang): KIM Il Ho

Senior Vice President (Soo Suk Bu Hwe Jang): SHIN Chul Soon

Vice President (Bu Hwe Jang): LEE Kwan Sung, PARK Chan Hak, SHIN Un Sik,
LEE Eui Bin, LEE Kang Won

Secretary General (Sa Moo Chong Jang): PARK Sung Jae

Treasurer (Je Moo Bu Jang): JUNG Young Shin

Advisor (Ko Moon): NAM Tae Hi, LEE Jhoon Goo, SHIN Hyun Ok, KIM In Mook

Legal Advisor (Bup Ryul Ja Moon): LEE Tae Hi

Consultant (Ja Moon): HAN Min Kyo, LEE Byung Moo

Chief Director (E Sa Jang): YANG Woo Yup

Assistant Chief Director (Bu E Sa Jang): PARK Dae Jin

Directors: JUNG Yon Sung (Alabama); YANG Woo Yup (California); me (Hawaii);
CHOI Young Sik (Kentucky); KIM Byung Woon (Maryland); KIM Il Kun
(Minnesota); AHN Nam Yul (New Hampshire); PARK Ik San (North Carolina); NAM
Sung Bok (Pennsylvania); KIM Jin Sung (Texas); LEE Jhoon Goo (Washington
DC); LEE Jong Min (Arizona); OH Myung Gun (Florida); JUNG Suk Jong
(Illinois); PARK Jung Ho (Kansas); JO Jae Hyu (Massachusetts); AN Jo Ho
(Missouri); SOON Myung Joon (New Jersey); KIM Hong Kang (Ohio); HONG Jin
Sung (Rhode Island); LEE Jin Ho (Virginia); JUNG Jae Bok (Wisconsin); LEE
Haeng Ung (Arkansas); SONG Min Suk (Georgia); PARK Sung Jae (Indiana); CHOI
Jong Hyun (Louisiana); PARK Dae Jin (Michigan); KIM Ki Hyung (Nebraska);
SHIN Hyun Ok (New York); KWON Tae Sung (Oregon); PARK Sang Gun (South
Carolina); SHIN Chul Soon (Washington State).