Blocking while sparring?

[chrismay101]

This thread leads on from another before commenting take alook at the Taekwondo video clip thread please.

while watching the video clip I noticed that hardly anyone is trying to block. one guy goes at the other and gets kicked in the head!

So the question is do people try and block while sparring?

When we are training blocking is almost as important as punching/kicking, We are told to alway keep our arms up and not let them drop to our sides.

any thoughts?

 

[K31]

I don't see a link to the video but I have thought about this as well as a TKD noob.

We learn a great deal of blocking but we are told that "getting out of the way" of an attack is the best defense.

Personally, I consider myself pretty good at blocking, and pretty big and slow in general, so I try to use my strengths.

If someone is throwing a kick or especially a punch they are opening their guard. I try to use this by blocking and opening up their guard further and immediately doing a counter-punch or kick.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I've had to think hard about the best way to answer this!

There is a distinct lack of a guard in some of those bouts isnt there?! I think that, due to the fact that scoring in competition is achieved by visible shock to a scorable area, it is somewhat different to real combat. IMHO countering is often the best way to achieve this, so by its nature you are often dodging the attack. Also if a strike glances off of the guard it does not score, so solid textbook blocking per se isnt always neccessary. That said, I try and use correct blocking techniques in my counters. Also there are no hand techniques in that video, which are more likely to be blockable.

Blocking full power kicks can hurt by the way! I think unless it impinges on your ability to strike back then avoidance is good, but with a block to back it up incase you fail to move fast/far enough!

 

[TKDmel]

I was taught, as were all of my masters students, to use a block-punch combo. We drilled at it for hours upon hours. This being said, when I fight competitively, I still incorporate the block when needed to set up the punch, thereby giving me an opening and distance to follow with a kick. I have in the past used a good ol' fashioned rising/high block to thwart an axe kick.

 

[Kacey]

I was taught, and teach my students, to block as well as attack. Yes, "the best defense is a good offense" but you still have to block. My students and I attended a tournament last weekend, and the students who did the best were the ones who blocked - the ones who only attacked tended to lose, unless their opponent just stood there (which happened occasionally, especially at the lower ranks).

If you're being attacked, you're going to get hit - for myself, I'd rather be hit in the arms than the face or body - therefore I block, and teach my students to do so as well.

 

[Miles]

"Best defense, no be there!" (I think it was Mr. Miyagi in one of the Karate Kid movies)

Blocking is necessary, but if you are doing full-contact sparring, you really don't want your arms taking a lot of abuse either.

Miles

 

[Touch Of Death]

Any TKD school I have ever trained in decided I was no longer allowed to block.:rules:
Sean

 

[bluekey88]

All righty, let me see if I can add some stuff here.

The lwo gaurd (what some think of as a lack of gaurd) is a result of Olympic-style sparring rule sets. Punches, though they should score...rarely do. All the scoring techniques will most likeyl be kicks with 80-90 percent of them being roundhouse kicks. Keeping the arms lower makes more sense as you are more likely to intercept an incoming kick with the arms lower. With a more standard gaurd, it is easier to slip a kick up under the elbows and hit the hogu.

"What about head shots?" I hear you ask. Well, those are less likely to occur in most matches and thus less likely to score. It takes longer for a foot to go from the floor ot the head than it does to get to the torso. If you do have to block a head shot, just raise your hand straigh up in the air (like Horshack from "Welcome Back Kotter") on the side the kcik is coming in from. Nothing fancy. Again, you are better off gaurding against high percentage techniques most of the time. What I always tell the students on comp team is "low gaurd does not mean no gaurd." Frankly, under a different ruleset or a self defense situation, I adjust my gaurd accordingly.

As to not blocking...not entirely true, but here's how we present that to our kids. Best is to use speed and footwork to goad your opponenet into attacking a perceived oipening...take that away and counter-attack. Next best is to you use speed and foot work to make your opponenet miss (and hopefully counter-attack). Third best is to block and counter.

Blocking gets you tired quicker. Bloking puts closer in range to get hit (you are close to your opponenet, in fron t of them in the red zone). If you get stuck in a siuation where you have to bloack a flurry of kicks...chances are one will eventually get in. If you can dodge, evade...you have more control over where you are and typically can put yourself in a better position relative to your opponent to score. It is generally better to get in, score one or two quick points then get out than it is to stay in trading blows.

Under a different reulset the tactics and strategies are different...these concepts tend to work better under Olympic-style sparring rules.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Touch Of Death]

All righty, let me see if I can add some stuff here.

The lwo gaurd (what some think of as a lack of gaurd) is a result of Olympic-style sparring rule sets. Punches, though they should score...rarely do. All the scoring techniques will most likeyl be kicks with 80-90 percent of them being roundhouse kicks. Keeping the arms lower makes more sense as you are more likely to intercept an incoming kick with the arms lower. With a more standard gaurd, it is easier to slip a kick up under the elbows and hit the hogu.

"What about head shots?" I hear you ask. Well, those are less likely to occur in most matches and thus less likely to score. It takes longer for a foot to go from the floor ot the head than it does to get to the torso. If you do have to block a head shot, just raise your hand straigh up in the air (like Horshack from "Welcome Back Kotter") on the side the kcik is coming in from. Nothing fancy. Again, you are better off gaurding against high percentage techniques most of the time. What I always tell the students on comp team is "low gaurd does not mean no gaurd." Frankly, under a different ruleset or a self defense situation, I adjust my gaurd accordingly.

As to not blocking...not entirely true, but here's how we present that to our kids. Best is to use speed and footwork to goad your opponenet into attacking a perceived oipening...take that away and counter-attack. Next best is to you use speed and foot work to make your opponenet miss (and hopefully counter-attack). Third best is to block and counter.

Blocking gets you tired quicker. Bloking puts closer in range to get hit (you are close to your opponenet, in fron t of them in the red zone). If you get stuck in a siuation where you have to bloack a flurry of kicks...chances are one will eventually get in. If you can dodge, evade...you have more control over where you are and typically can put yourself in a better position relative to your opponent to score. It is generally better to get in, score one or two quick points then get out than it is to stay in trading blows.

Under a different reulset the tactics and strategies are different...these concepts tend to work better under Olympic-style sparring rules.

Peace,
Erik

If you block to injure, they stop kicking.
Sean

 

[Kacey]

If you block to injure, they stop kicking.
Sean

Very true... remember, all blocks can be offensive, and all strikes can be defensive... it's all in where you focus - in front of their strike, on the surface, or an inch in...

 

[Miles]

If you block to injure, they stop kicking.
Sean

But the thread was started with the thought of blocking in a sparring context. If you spar with the intent to injure, you are not sparring.

Miles

 

[wade]

WTF TKD, "IF" a player blocks an attack and there is a loud "hitting" noice then there is a very good chance the referees will award the point for the "hit". So, in Olympic style TKD it is much better to avoid the hit than to block the hit. I'm not saying this is real life, I am saying it is the way it is scored in WTF competition.

 

[bluekey88]

True, and I'm not saying one should not block to injure in a self-defense situation. (everything should be done to injure )..but I was trying to address the supposed lack of gaurd or blocking in Olympic-style TKD sparring.

If you block to injure, they stop kicking.
Sean

 

[Shaderon]

Ok here's how I see it and how I'm taught. Yes get out of the way of attacks, BUT, if you are attacking and are committed, and your opponant attacks, block them as you can't KEEP running away, and carry on your attack then turn it into a combo and go for where they are newly open with your second attack.

Just hope the ref sees your block as a block and not a hit.

P.S. I find a nice backhand to the temple as a 2nd phase in a punch combo while blocking a kick with a leg very effective..... I've got it in a few times on the higher belts.... :boxing: :2xbird:

 

[Touch Of Death]

But the thread was started with the thought of blocking in a sparring context. If you spar with the intent to injure, you are not sparring.

Miles

Sure it is; however it can also be a learning experience. The kicker can say, "Wow, every time I do that, I feel incredible pain."; And, because its a sparring session it never gets worse. Sparring is an isolation of reality for the bennefit of learning.:soapbox:
Sean

 

[Miles]

Sure it is; however it can also be a learning experience. The kicker can say, "Wow, every time I do that, I feel incredible pain."; And, because its a sparring session it never gets worse. Sparring is an isolation of reality for the bennefit of learning.:soapbox:
Sean

Sorry Sean, you've lost me. I understand sparring can be a learning experience. I also understand that pain can be an incredible teacher.

However, my definition of sparring is that there is an exchange of technique without the intent to injure. Injuries may occur but by accident. If you intend to injure, but your opponent does not, you are committing assault and battery as it goes beyond the consensual exchange of technique. If both parties intend to injure, it is a fight, not a sparring match.

Miles

 

[Kacey]

Ancient Korean secret, passed down to me from my sahbum, who got it from his sahbum, who got it from his sahbum (who was from Korea)...

"No block with face."

 

[wade]

Miles, what about WTK Taekwondo where the body shots are judged on impact and you can win by knock out. The whole intent there is to injury, hurt or put the other player out of commission so that they can not continue. It is not a case of assault and battery it is 2 players fighting full contact TKD. If you put a touch football player in a game with players wearing pads and used to hitting are they then wrong to nail the touch foot ball player who wants to play with them? No, they are just playing under different rules, the same as in the martial arts. If the full contact players went to a non/light contact tournament and went all out then he would be wrong but in WTF TKD if you are not hitting with the intent to injure (within the context of the rules that govern WTF TKD) then you are not playing the game the way it should be played and you really need to go somewhere else that is a safer place to play. This is just my opinion, of course.

 

[Marginal]

Blocking gets you tired quicker. Bloking puts closer in range to get hit (you are close to your opponenet, in fron t of them in the red zone). If you get stuck in a siuation where you have to bloack a flurry of kicks...chances are one will eventually get in. If you can dodge, evade...you have more control over where you are and typically can put yourself in a better position relative to your opponent to score. It is generally better to get in, score one or two quick points then get out than it is to stay in trading blows.

As far as that final option goes, it's not really limited to block and counter. I'm currently having a hard time getting over the block and counter mentality because it tends to cause me to set my feet when I anticipate an attack, which in turn makes me a target for further kicking combos etc even though I shut down the opening salvo.

If I couple that block with angling off or some kind of lateral movement, it may set up a counter, or it may simply set me in better position while keeping me from getting hit. Granted, it's better not to be there, but in cases where movement won't get you out of the way in time, blocking doesn't automatically mean that you're stanting in front of the guy trading shots. I notice a couple of tricks to get people out of that habit in the dojang I train in, and in others' posts in this forum. (Circling, using angles, moving in a star shaped pattern etc are all remidies to that habit to some degree or another.)

Dunno why that set your feet meme creeps in. Side effect of patterns and blocking drilling during floor exercises?

PS. I realize that you're mainly commenting on olympic style sparring. Since the blocking = set your feet and trade issue seems to be a broader problem in traditional arts, your post made a nice segue. Not trying to argue against the olympic ruleset per se.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Sorry Sean, you've lost me. I understand sparring can be a learning experience. I also understand that pain can be an incredible teacher.

However, my definition of sparring is that there is an exchange of technique without the intent to injure. Injuries may occur but by accident. If you intend to injure, but your opponent does not, you are committing assault and battery as it goes beyond the consensual exchange of technique. If both parties intend to injure, it is a fight, not a sparring match.

Miles

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Sean