- Jul 9, 2008
- Reaction score
- Covington, WA
I'm really confused, frankly. I agree with some of what you're saying. For example, I agree completely that BJJ is derived from judo, specifically Pre-WWII judo as it existed in the late 1800's and very early 1900s. Modern judo is also derived from pre-WWII judo, and if you're saying that the one is watered down, surely you'll also agree that the other is as well. Modern Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are both cousins descended from Kano Jujutsu along slightly different paths. Where judo has focused on throws and ground work with an emphasis on throws, BJJ focuses on throws and groundwork with an emphasis on ground fighting.Carlos Gracie wasn't taught any form of "Traditional Japanese Jujutsu"
The only Jujutsu he was taught was "Judo" which at the time was commonly referred to as "Kano Jujutsu" or "Jujutsu." The groundwork you see in BJJ looks nothing like any Japanese Jujutsu Ryuha. All of that is learned from Judo "newaza." You think becaues BJJ don't use throws of Judo that it's not from Judo? Doesn't matter if it lacks the Tachiwaza of Judo... it is built upon the newaza curriculum of Kodokan Judo. I say it is watered down because the concept of Ju and Aiki are lost in BJJ.(Which is why I don't see why it's called Jujutsu or "Jiujitsu")
For someone who alleges not to be intentionally insulting, you're bringing it up a lot. I honestly wouldn't take anything you're saying as insulting, but I wonder at your intentions strictly because you're mentioning it over and over. Honestly, while I wouldn't be insulted by your specific statements, I believe you are trying to be insulting because you keep bringing it up. I heard a woman at work say to another woman, "Your new haircut looks great. It's very practical and easy to manage. I hope you don't find that insulting."All I see is him being high ranked and well respected Judoka. Arts like Aikido, Krav Maga, and Judo actually look more like Japanese Jujutsu than BJJ. I am sure it looks like I am insulting BJJ, but I am not. I actually like some of the techniques from BJJ which I incorporate if it doesn't conflict with my schools philosophy of combat too much.
Later, the other woman was venting. Her haircut WAS practical and easy to manage, but it was clear to everyone that the first woman said those things with the intention to be insulting.
You've said this a couple times now. Can you help me understand what you mean when you say the concept of "ju" or of "aiki?" I'm dumb. Make it as simple for me as you can, please.Modern Judo still has concept of Ju within it.
But like I said I am not trying to belittle BJJ, just post my knowledge of the topic. I am open to criticism, and do not mind being proven wrong.
Somewhat. When I disengage, I mean to specifically return to a neutral position. From this position, what you do is entirely up to you based on the situation at hand.Also what you said about positioning is what I was referring to. Sure you can "disengage from your position"
The same way muay thai practitioner can disengage from his clinch.
And now it looks like you're straying a little. You asked specifically about what I mean by positional dominance and establishing control. In that context, we attempt to dominate by engaging. But I also said that from every position, disengaging is as important as engaging. Obviously, if I'm choosing to engage, I will not simultaneously choose to disengage. But WHEN I engage, my goals will be to control my opponent and work for positional advantage.But the method of BJJ is to dominate opponent by engaging.(In which like you said is by getting positional advantage)
Would you say that this is different from judo? Do you train in judo?
Unless the goal is to create space and seperate from the opponent. I wish you'd just say what's on your mind. Really. It's clear you have an agenda and you're a clever guy. What's on your mind? You seem to me to be talking around what you're really trying to say.To be more specific the techniques require you to be really committed to the opponent.