Bil Gee-Finger Strike to the Throat

punisher73

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When I first saw the title, I thought it was a variation on something I teach. For someone trying to crowd in or rapidly advanced, use the palm strike to the center of the sternum and then "sliding" the fingertips into the notch at the base of the throat. Works very well.
 

geezer

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Fingertip strikes are risky business ....except maybe as a soft flick to the eyes to set up what comes next. In the WT I trained, we almost always used sat sau instead ...that's striking straitht forward much the same way as with biu tze sau, but pulling the fingertips aside and driving forward with the outside edge of the palm.

I personally find it more versatile and safer, both to your opponent and to you. No broken fingers if you are off target!
 
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futsaowingchun

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When I first saw the title, I thought it was a variation on something I teach. For someone trying to crowd in or rapidly advanced, use the palm strike to the center of the sternum and then "sliding" the fingertips into the notch at the base of the throat. Works very well.
Oh i use your version also. yes very effective,
 
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futsaowingchun

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Fingertip strikes are risky business ....except maybe as a soft flick to the eyes to set up what comes next. In the WT I trained, we almost always used sat sau instead ...that's striking straitht forward much the same way as with biu tze sau, but pulling the fingertips aside and driving forward with the outside edge of the palm.

I personally find it more versatile and safer, both to your opponent and to you. No broken fingers if you are off target!
yes i agree using your fingers are more risky nd only shold be used if your in a danerous situation.
 

Oily Dragon

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yes i agree using your fingers are more risky nd only shold be used if your in a danerous situation.
It always depends.

Because you're not trained in other styles like Snake, I'll elaborate. Biu JEE Sao is not necessarily about striking with the fingertips. That's one of several bridges, the Cheun (inch) Bridge. It's essential to southern Snake and Dragon styles.

But what is that compared to the Hok Ding Sao, the Phoenix Eye Fist Block and Punch? 曊湧 If you're not familiar with this one, seek it out. In some styles, it's also called Crane Digging Method.
 
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ShortBridge

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Just to offer a contrasting perspective - where this goes against my training is the idea that from that unbridged position (or any position) that I want to execute a particular technique that is unavailable, so I need to do things first to change the circumstance, so that the technique will work.

I train and teach ambivalence on executing particular techniques, but rather to work with and adapt to what is there. Get a bridge - take center - cover areas that I'm likely to receive an attack (which you left completely open, by the way) and then continue to do so until the situation is resolved.

Not to be critical, I know it's just a snapshot. Just sharing an alternate perspective.
 

Hyoho

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Using the palm strike to set up your finger strike to the throat.
I am surprised it being mentioned that strikes to the eyes are difficult. We have a thrusting strike with the tip of the sword to the throat that can also be done with say a toothpick or finger. In actual practice we thrust at a particular target to stop 1cm in front of it. Also kendoka and iaidoka have the accuracy of striking a small coin with a hole in it swinging from string. Pinpoint accuracy is hardly a problem for regular practitioners.
 

drop bear

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I

I am surprised it being mentioned that strikes to the eyes are difficult. We have a thrusting strike with the tip of the sword to the throat that can also be done with say a toothpick or finger. In actual practice we thrust at a particular target to stop 1cm in front of it. Also kendoka and iaidoka have the accuracy of striking a small coin with a hole in it swinging from string. Pinpoint accuracy is hardly a problem for regular practitioners.

Moving target.
 

Martial D

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Ya. Hitting something isn't hard if you know where it will be when your fist leaves chamber. If you never practice against a target(person) that isn't scripted, it's gonna be easy to fool yourself.

EVERYTHING is different when the other guy is allowed to fight back.

Finger jabs in this context are generally a very bad idea. Those soft targets you are aiming at are likely to be replaced by a skull or an elbow when it arrives.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Finger jabs in this context are generally a very bad idea.
I believe you will have better chance to use fingers to slide across your opponent's eyes.

You have 5 fingers and your opponent has 2 eyes. The chance that one of your fingers can slide on one of your opponent's eyes can be much higher than the finger jab.
 

Argus

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I feel that Biu Sau to the eyes actually has more application in empty hand versus weapons.

When your opponent has a weapon, naturally, his reach is much longer -- even with a knife. If you want to threaten him, and provoke some reaction, sending your fingers out towards his eyes is a good way to do that, even if you don't quite reach the target. It still provokes a defensive response, and takes his attention off of actually hurting you for moment. People don't like anything coming near their eyes. Biu Sau is a very efficient way of doing that, and has sufficient reach, unlike palm or, often, even a fist.

WSL employed Biu Sau to the throat in one of his matches, allegedly, and since that time cautioned students to be careful with it, because of the very serious affect it had on his opponent who apparently was injured badly and turned pale. My memory is fuzzy, but I recall it being described as "very frightening."

So, apparently yes, it certainly does have application against a resisting opponent, and it can be quite effective at that. But missing and jamming your fingers into the wrong thing is definitely a risk.
 

wckf92

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I feel that Biu Sau to the eyes actually has more application in empty hand versus weapons.

When your opponent has a weapon, naturally, his reach is much longer -- even with a knife. If you want to threaten him, and provoke some reaction, sending your fingers out towards his eyes is a good way to do that, even if you don't quite reach the target. It still provokes a defensive response, and takes his attention off of actually hurting you for moment. People don't like anything coming near their eyes. Biu Sau is a very efficient way of doing that, and has sufficient reach, unlike palm or, often, even a fist.

WSL employed Biu Sau to the throat in one of his matches, allegedly, and since that time cautioned students to be careful with it, because of the very serious affect it had on his opponent who apparently was injured badly and turned pale. My memory is fuzzy, but I recall it being described as "very frightening."

So, apparently yes, it certainly does have application against a resisting opponent, and it can be quite effective at that. But missing and jamming your fingers into the wrong thing is definitely a risk.

I think you are confusing Bil Sau with Bil Jee (?)
 

Argus

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I think you are confusing Bil Sau with Bil Jee (?)
First I wrote "Biu Jee" and then I came back and edited it as "Bil Sau" because that's the term I usually use...
I thought they're the same? Or do some people use them to distinguish between striking with the fingers (Biu Jee?), and just using it as a parry / to occupy centerline (Biu Sau?)? I see them as the same thing, just with a different application...
 

wckf92

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First I wrote "Biu Jee" and then I came back and edited it as "Bil Sau" because that's the term I usually use...
I thought they're the same? Or do some people use them to distinguish between striking with the fingers (Biu Jee?), and just using it as a parry / to occupy centerline (Biu Sau?)? I see them as the same thing, just with a different application...

Ok. Cool. Yeah no worries. I figured it was something like that. To my mind, bil sau (shooting hand) and bil jee (shooting fingers) are two different things. Thanks for clarifying.
 

ShortBridge

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My thought about most wing Chun techniques is that they start with a certain degree of ambivalence. They start as covering space, looking for a bridge, taking center. What happens next depends on what you run into.

I never think about a biu jee finger strike as something to commit to from a boxing like range. When people say "it's too dangerous" or "you can't target things like eyeballs" I think they are usually imagining them thrown like a boxer and I agree that I wouldn't do or advocate for that.

Biu sao as a cover is great. It's strong and covers a lot of space and it's very safe.

With a bridge that you can follow in, biu jee strikes are way easier and safer (for the proponent) than people think.

I know there is such a thing as snake boxing, no comments on what they can or can't do, because I've never seen it in person. Just my thoughts from a Wing Chun perspective.
 
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