Biggest martial art bs stories

Rat

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
183
Which is kind of my point. That even boxing places can claim to be teaching you actual skills when they're not.

I have a mixed opinion on boxercise, it could be legit boxing training, just removing the sparring aspect, so they teach you to punch properly etc.

Or, it could be just a fitness thing or one of those crossfit type boxercise places. I would belive qualified boxing coaches that teach both, would either let you chose or teach actual boxing S&C and drills, just removing the sparring aspect. (to reflect not actually going to compete)

My first experience with boxing was just seeing them do circuits years ago, so you can figure how well that translated to my thought process. (this was sub 18 at the time) Say what you will though, double end bag and pad work does translate quite nicely to actually fighting someone, so you would still be above somone who doesnt do that aspect. But at the same time, you need to be jabbed in the face at least once before.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,216
Reaction score
1,852
Location
Southeast U.S.
Yeah, no contact. And it's not a COVID thing. Neither competed at all. I found out about them from a boxer friend of mine back when I was looking for a new boxing club to join-he warned me both will give an intense workout, but no sparring occurs.

Out of curiosity I went to both and asked-this was a couple of years ago, but from what I remember: one of the coaches seemed to be more focused on getting into shape (but made clear it was more than just 'cardio boxing'), and that padwork is all you need without having to injure each other. The other one wasn't really clear about why they didn't spar, but it wasn't the owner I spoke to so there may have been disagreements there. Neither had their students competing anywhere.

There's also one in the city that uses boxing to help with dementia patients..I'm not sure, but I'd bet they don't do sparring as well. Nor should they.
Was it called a Cross Fit program? We have them in our area. I can tell you they are not for people starting out at a zero fitness level but are a very good program for people who are looking to take their workout up a gear. It does have a Lot of bag work but no physical contact. I would say the current social influences will be a positive for this kind of exercise program when things fully break for the pandemic.
 
OP
K

KOKarate

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
179
Reaction score
58
I have a mixed opinion on boxercise, it could be legit boxing training, just removing the sparring aspect, so they teach you to punch properly etc.

Or, it could be just a fitness thing or one of those crossfit type boxercise places. I would belive qualified boxing coaches that teach both, would either let you chose or teach actual boxing S&C and drills, just removing the sparring aspect. (to reflect not actually going to compete)

My first experience with boxing was just seeing them do circuits years ago, so you can figure how well that translated to my thought process. (this was sub 18 at the time) Say what you will though, double end bag and pad work does translate quite nicely to actually fighting someone, so you would still be above somone who doesnt do that aspect. But at the same time, you need to be jabbed in the face at least once before.
Boxers do circuits for strength and conditioning also pad work is completely dependent on the pad holder....most boxercise pad holders just let you smack the pads with no technique because they don’t care about that it’s just the exercise of it that matters. But obviously real boxing pad holders will be pointing out corrections and small details to help refine technique and be giving good combos not just circuit type combos
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rat

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
Too much theory. Here's what I see;

Beautiful forms:

Lousy application:
Your response is an example of what I'm talking about. I don't know how he practices his fighting. But I can tell you from experience, that if you practice your forms like that, then it will be useless for fighting. If that's what YOU or a Kung Fu practitioner expects to see when fighting, then the disconnect is taking an presentation of a form that is meant to entertain and expecting to see it in a fight. Which is not realistic.

If all he does is practice forms for entertainment purposes then you aren't going to see it comping out in a fight. It's just not going to work. From experience as a kid trying to fight like I saw on Kung Fu movies. It doesn't work. It's 2 different things. Anyone that knows how to actually use a TMA application will not only tell you that it's 2 different things, but they will also tell you, don't expect to see that forms video to show in any fight, because that's not how you train the form in order to actually use the technique.

This isn't a knock on you. But I'm thinking that if you actually knew how to use TMA techniques beyond basic kicking and punching, then you would have picked up right away that there's no way you can learn how to do those techniques by training a form like that. You wouldn't have even posted that video because it would be clear that doing forms like that is pure entertainment.

This is the disconnect that I'm talking about. Someone who knows how to do actually TMA application in sparring and in competitive fighting would use that as an example of what they see and what they expect to see in fighting.
 

Yokozuna514

Black Belt
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
623
Reaction score
410
Programs (eg: Boxercise) like fighting systems are only as good as the people that are teaching it. I've been to places that are very similar to Boxercise gyms but they have put in elements from Muay Thai to give the circuits more range. One of the stations was working with the trainer on focus pads. Very interesting instruction I was receiving, that is all I am going to say but he should stick to what he knows which is getting the heart rate up.

I suspect anyone taking any system that doesn't allow them to readily adapt to the situation in front on them will find themselves on the bad end of a knockout. Anything can happen in a fight and it is best to never take your opponent lightly regardless of the amount of training you think you have. You can always meet up with someone that has more or is willing to do something (or use something) that your training hasn't accounted for or trained enough for you to become proficient. I am also not speaking about anything as wild as using concealed weapons. Something as simple as a head butt is something most systems do not teach to defend against nor do most people suspect will be used against them.

It's not systems that win fights but people. Tools are only as good as the tradespeople that use them. Is an adjustable wrench better than offset wrench ? Perhaps in certain situations but if you don't know how to use either, the point is moot. A skilled tradesman can also use a bar and an elastic band to do the same job. May not be pretty but it will get'er done.
 
Last edited:

Hanzou

Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
6,265
Reaction score
974
Your response is an example of what I'm talking about. I don't know how he practices his fighting. But I can tell you from experience, that if you practice your forms like that, then it will be useless for fighting. If that's what YOU or a Kung Fu practitioner expects to see when fighting, then the disconnect is taking an presentation of a form that is meant to entertain and expecting to see it in a fight. Which is not realistic.

If all he does is practice forms for entertainment purposes then you aren't going to see it comping out in a fight. It's just not going to work. From experience as a kid trying to fight like I saw on Kung Fu movies. It doesn't work. It's 2 different things. Anyone that knows how to actually use a TMA application will not only tell you that it's 2 different things, but they will also tell you, don't expect to see that forms video to show in any fight, because that's not how you train the form in order to actually use the technique.

This isn't a knock on you. But I'm thinking that if you actually knew how to use TMA techniques beyond basic kicking and punching, then you would have picked up right away that there's no way you can learn how to do those techniques by training a form like that. You wouldn't have even posted that video because it would be clear that doing forms like that is pure entertainment.

This is the disconnect that I'm talking about. Someone who knows how to do actually TMA application in sparring and in competitive fighting would use that as an example of what they see and what they expect to see in fighting.

But the question is, why even learn those forms in the first place? What does it benefit from a fighting stand point? That sifu had been doing Hung Ga for 20 years before he got into that altercation, he was trained by a respected Chinese "master" in the art, his technique appeared perfect, and that fight was the result of all of that training. What if your goal was self defense and you had spent 20 years training like he did, and when it came time to defend yourself, you couldn't beat some punk who probably spent a few months watching fighting videos? Meanwhile, far too many folks think just doing a pre-arranged form is enough.

That's the disconnect I'm talking about.

Heck, in this Sifu's case, he actually did practice some sparring and general fight mechanics. The problem is that his fundamentals were flawed, and those fundamentals come from the archaic martial art he chose to practice. I don't expect any particular appearance of fighting, I expect someone who has trained in a martial art for 20 years to be able to fight period. He looked like an untrained fighter in that vid, and he was completely helpless against a bear hug. That's white belt level stuff.
 

isshinryuronin

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
783
Reaction score
604
Location
Las Vegas
I disagree. I've trained American Karate for a long time. The "archaic stuff" as you call it, was replaced in 73. And Kickboxing, which I also did a lot of, was a sport. Kind of a fun sport, too. And sometimes they paid you.

But American Karate is still technically Karate.

Original karate employed many open hand techniques, including grabs. Are these the "archaic" moves Hanzou was referring to? By putting boxing gloves on while doing karate (which deleted the above moves) with boxing technique added, kickboxing resulted - An early hybrid sport that developed to give karate guys a chance to have contact (at the expense of losing open hand techniques and some kicking as well.) And it was fun, if not a little sloppy at first, as we had to figure out how to put it all together.

So it wasn't that archaic moves were removed from karate to make it more effective, but rather the use of boxing gloves and new rules that required the removal of these techniques. A few years later, glove type changed to open the fingers, grappling again being possible (and expanded) and MMA was born.

Wondering why you listed 1973 as the time the "archaic stuff" was replaced. Is it because of what I discussed above? I ask because I would say 1973 is about when kickboxing was developed.

American Karate (EPKK) was definitely karate, though more refined in some ways than other TMA, especially in the retaining many of the old TMA concepts (which curiously were lost in those TMA) and in the organized presentation of those concepts using modern language. Did 1973 have some reference to AK? I was in Parker's system at that time (Kenpo 1.50?) and it was already a fully developed style.

Your thoughts on this, Buka?
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
Too much theory. Here's what I see;

Beautiful forms:

Lousy application:
Oh by the way that fight video at the end hit the Kung Fu world in the U.S. really hard. Even in the video there are some misconceptions about what is used in fighting. You can hear someone in the video say lower yourself to the ground or something like that. You can see he doesn't take the fighting stance which is why he got the feedback from doing the side kick, as the kick pushed him backwards. He tries to address grappling with striking. I don't know how many times I've stated on MT the flaws of doing that. If someone grabs you then address the grab. It's that simple. Don't try to punch your way out of grappling, if they are already holding you. You have to break the hold first then strike.

If someone grabs me from behind like in the video, I'm not going to try to lower my stance. I'm going to try to interfere with my opponent's structure so he can't toss me, then I'm going to try to break the grip or prevent the grip from locking in really good.

In my opinion he was short enough where he could have used his right leg to step behind his opponent's left left leg. From there he could have grabbed his opponent's left leg which would have prevented and leverage to throw.
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
But the question is, why even learn those forms in the first place?
If I was going to teach you Jow Ga. I wouldn't teach you how to do the forms like that. If I knew Hung Ga, I wouldn't teach you to do forms like that. If I were to teach you Kung fu, your Forms would more like a predetermined shadow boxing pattern. You would understand when combo strikes begin and where they end. You would understand where Single strikes begin and where they end. You would understand that each single strike and combo are different scenarios and not flow chart for one chart.

For example, in one of my forms there is a technique that is used for exactly for the situation that he was in. When you training it. That technique is only done with the understanding that someone is grabbing you from behind. The time to deploy the technique is when you first realize your opponent is trying to grab you from behind. If you miss window then you would need to do something else. But in terms of the form. You only visual that one possibility and you train that movement. Then if an elbow follows after that movement, then you take your mind out of the grappling scenario and think of the elbow strike as something you do in a totally different scenario not related someone grabbing you from behind.

If I were to train you. You would know where these scenarios begin and where they end. Instead of training it as a ongoing brawl, You would train it as various positions that you may find yourself in a fight.

I'm not sure what the slapping that was going, Camera man sucks. But in my book there was not need to charge in like that. For me, the only way I would charge in like that is when I'm setting you up for something that has a high chance of pulling it off. If you look at my sparring videos. All of the ones that have me charging in, produces results.
 

Yokozuna514

Black Belt
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
623
Reaction score
410
Oh by the way that fight video at the end hit the Kung Fu world in the U.S. really hard. Even in the video there are some misconceptions about what is used in fighting. You can hear someone in the video say lower yourself to the ground or something like that. You can see he doesn't take the fighting stance which is why he got the feedback from doing the side kick, as the kick pushed him backwards. He tries to address grappling with striking. I don't know how many times I've stated on MT the flaws of doing that. If someone grabs you then address the grab. It's that simple. Don't try to punch your way out of grappling, if they are already holding you. You have to break the hold first then strike.

If someone grabs me from behind like in the video, I'm not going to try to lower my stance. I'm going to try to interfere with my opponent's structure so he can't toss me, then I'm going to try to break the grip or prevent the grip from locking in really good.

In my opinion he was short enough where he could have used his right leg to step behind his opponent's left left leg. From there he could have grabbed his opponent's left leg which would have prevented and leverage to throw.
After watching that video, I would be interested to know how many people have gone back to their training and 'drilled' that scenario. Would their current systems allow for that to be drilled consistently and then pressure tested. In my system, we do not have these types of situations occurring in the sport aspect but we do a lot of training of concepts outside of the regular curriculum. You can only perform how you train, in my book.

By the way, there are many different escapes from the situation he found himself in. I am not kung fu guy but if I look at it from a karate perspective, there are a number of things he could have tried but the effectiveness of any of those things would have been a function of how often he trained to be in that situation and how comfortable he felt in executing them with any efficacy. The guy had his back and could have done a number of things at that point. I am sure he did the best he could and the result showed that this scenario is something he hasn't had a lot of experience in.
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
That sifu had been doing Hung Ga for 20 years before he got into that altercation, he was trained by a respected Chinese "master" in the art, his technique appeared perfect, and that fight was the result of all of that training.
If he trained for 20 years then it wasn't for fighting. It was probably for performance / entertainment. I'm just basing it on the form that you showed and comparing it to how I train my forms. Everyone has seen me do more Jow Ga kung fun in my sparring then the amount of Hung Gar that shows up here, in that video. This is the only thing that makes sense to me when it comes to training. I know people who have many more years in Jow Ga but they still can't fight the way that I fight with Jow Ga.

There's a big difference between doing a technique in the open and actually apply it. Some of the techniques require sets ups to use, other parts only work in certain positions or stance levels. If a person doesn't actually try to use those techniques against someone outside of their system, then they aren't going to understand these important key points.

1. You have to get sparring in and you have to fight against someone not using the same style. I got lucky because the other instructor was a brawler, He rarely used Jow Ga against me, and I never encourage him to. I knew that as long as he fought me like a brawler, that I would get good training opportunities to understand how to set up the Jow Ga techniques. There was another instructor who was the same. He came from a boxing background and that's what he always used against me.

2, You always have to train the forms in the same manner that the technique is actually applied. So if the technique requires that I cut angle then I cut the angle in the form even if that's not how it was originally taught to me. How the technique would be actually applied is the way that it must be done in the form, if you want to get any fighting benefit out of the form.
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
Meanwhile, far too many folks think just doing a pre-arranged form is enough.
I agree with you on this. None of my Jow Ga training was just using a Pre-arranged form. My entire training theory on Kung Fu is this: "No matter what position I'm in, I should be able to do some type of Kung Fu." This is what my shadow boxing is based on. I should never feel like I have to be in a certain position in order to do Kung Fu.

Left leg forward or right leg forward, I should have some kind of technique that I can easily apply. Even if I'm on the ground, I should be able to apply something of Kung Fu. I shouldn't have to wait until I'm in a certain position before I'm able to do Kung Fu, which is exactly what the forms are.

So for me, I did drilling, forms, body conditioning, kung fu shadow boxing, sparring, and cardio. All of those together helps me to be able to do kung fu. Which is why I have so many videos of me using kung fu techniques.

The problem is that his fundamentals were flawed, and those fundamentals come from the archaic martial art he chose to practice. I don't expect any particular appearance of fighting, I expect someone who has trained in a martial art for 20 years to be able to fight period.
I would only expect someone with 20 Years of kung fu experience to be able to fight, only if they were using that time to train to fight. If they only used that time to look good doing forms, then I don't expect them to be able to fight. It's unreasonable to think they would be able to at that point, being that none of there time was spent training to fight.
 

JowGaWolf

Grandmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,149
After watching that video, I would be interested to know how many people have gone back to their training and 'drilled' that scenario.
I hope everyone did, including Sharif Bey. I hope the realization sunk in. Like there's nothing wrong with a cool Kung Fu form. Just don't think doing a form like that is "fight prep" or "fight training." When that fight took place, everyone knew that same week of what happened to him and lots of people saw it. There was a lot of disappoint all around. My entire perspective, is that knowing how to fight using Kung fu should be a requirement for anyone who wants to be a Kung Fu Sifu. But that's not the case and we all know it and see it.

Would their current systems allow for that to be drilled consistently and then pressure tested.
This is a personal preference. Sifu's have the authority to set up sparring sessions with other schools. They would just need to drop their ego and go to the school and present the case in the format that they think the school vs school sparring would be good for both schools and that it's a learning experience and not a competition experience.

In my system, we do not have these types of situations occurring in the sport aspect but we do a lot of training of concepts outside of the regular curriculum. You can only perform how you train, in my book.
My Sifu at the time would invite an MMA fighter to train with us just so we can get experience and share knowledge. I agree with you 1000%. "You can only perform how you train." That's why when I see things like the Kung Fu vs MMA videos I can tell who actually trained for fighting and who trained for entertainment performance. What comes out in a fight or sparring is an honest representation of one's training.

By the way, there are many different escapes from the situation he found himself in. I am not kung fu guy but if I look at it from a karate perspective, there are a number of things he could have tried but the effectiveness of any of those things would have been a function of how often he trained to be in that situation and how comfortable he felt in executing them with any efficacy. The guy had his back and could have done a number of things at that point. I am sure he did the best he could and the result showed that this scenario is something he hasn't had a lot of experience in.
Correct again. The results of that sparring sessions highlights the lack of training for fighting. The Hung Ga person is well respected even after that., but sparring never lies. It will highlight the reality of our training.
 

Yokozuna514

Black Belt
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
623
Reaction score
410
I hope everyone did, including Sharif Bey. I hope the realization sunk in. Like there's nothing wrong with a cool Kung Fu form. Just don't think doing a form like that is "fight prep" or "fight training." When that fight took place, everyone knew that same week of what happened to him and lots of people saw it. There was a lot of disappoint all around. My entire perspective, is that knowing how to fight using Kung fu should be a requirement for anyone who wants to be a Kung Fu Sifu. But that's not the case and we all know it and see it.

This is a personal preference. Sifu's have the authority to set up sparring sessions with other schools. They would just need to drop their ego and go to the school and present the case in the format that they think the school vs school sparring would be good for both schools and that it's a learning experience and not a competition experience.

My Sifu at the time would invite an MMA fighter to train with us just so we can get experience and share knowledge. I agree with you 1000%. "You can only perform how you train." That's why when I see things like the Kung Fu vs MMA videos I can tell who actually trained for fighting and who trained for entertainment performance. What comes out in a fight or sparring is an honest representation of one's training.

Correct again. The results of that sparring sessions highlights the lack of training for fighting. The Hung Ga person is well respected even after that., but sparring never lies. It will highlight the reality of our training.
Osu, Jow Ga Wolf. In this we agree 100%. The expression we use is 'the truth will always come out on floor' and that is a broad statement that is meant to address all aspects of training. It is or should be apparent at what you are putting your time into. We may go to the same school, have the same instructors and learn the same style but how and what we understand or what we can perform may be very different. Same standards but abilities may vary so it is important to train with people better than yourself if possible and to keep pushing your own envelop. Your instructor may have an idea on how far you can go but the best times in the floor can happen when you both surprise each other on how much more there is or has been assimilated.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,216
Reaction score
1,852
Location
Southeast U.S.
Yup. The first one at least adamantly denied that though. And some of the people who go there think they're becoming legit fighters.

Which is kind of my point. That even boxing places can claim to be teaching you actual skills when they're not.
Agree. The McDojo moniker comes to mind. In reality a 'bad' program, regardless of what it pertains to is as much about How it is presented or framed to the consumer as it is anything else. It can be a great product that is delivered in an excellent way and even have great results. But if you are using the product thinking you are learning how to lift weights only to find out you are instead learning really good cardio (just a bad example) you will benefit from it but will eventually become dissatisfied with the product. A poor description but the best I can come up with at the moment.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,226
Reaction score
7,536
Location
Maui
Original karate employed many open hand techniques, including grabs. Are these the "archaic" moves Hanzou was referring to? By putting boxing gloves on while doing karate (which deleted the above moves) with boxing technique added, kickboxing resulted - An early hybrid sport that developed to give karate guys a chance to have contact (at the expense of losing open hand techniques and some kicking as well.) And it was fun, if not a little sloppy at first, as we had to figure out how to put it all together.

So it wasn't that archaic moves were removed from karate to make it more effective, but rather the use of boxing gloves and new rules that required the removal of these techniques. A few years later, glove type changed to open the fingers, grappling again being possible (and expanded) and MMA was born.

Wondering why you listed 1973 as the time the "archaic stuff" was replaced. Is it because of what I discussed above? I ask because I would say 1973 is about when kickboxing was developed.

American Karate (EPKK) was definitely karate, though more refined in some ways than other TMA, especially in the retaining many of the old TMA concepts (which curiously were lost in those TMA) and in the organized presentation of those concepts using modern language. Did 1973 have some reference to AK? I was in Parker's system at that time (Kenpo 1.50?) and it was already a fully developed style.

Your thoughts on this, Buka?

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I listed 73 because that's when we replaced the BS that my phony instructor was doing. By 73 he had turned over all the teaching to me, he just wanted the tuition money, which was fine with me. Some might say, 'Why didn't you just go someplace else?" There really wasn't many places around back then, and none near by. And my boxing gym was a block away. It was great.

The guy taught exercises wrong, made stuff up, if he read something in a Karate magazine he'd teach it in class the next day, not knowing what the hell he was talking about - and made up a story about how he won a tournament with it.

When I took over, the student number dramatically increased over the next six months. So he opened another school in a rich town about ten miles away. He was having a Grand Opening. He had business cards that said he was "The Director". Gave business cards to me, nice ones too, that said I was the Chief Instructor. He then had a well advertised Open House couple days before classes were to start. I actually had hope.

The Open House comes. I'm even wearing a three piece suit and a tie. One of the people that came showed me the full page ad the "director" had run. It listed American Karate all right, but in even bigger print, with Martial designs as well, it listed Shaolin Kung Fu, Chinese Kenpo and one other style, I forget which one, that was TAUGHT in our new dojo. I wasn't about to lie. When asked if I was instructing those as well, I said "No, I've never studied them. Neither has he. Ask him, I don't run ads, I teach American Karate. And I was asked a lot that day.

You might think that would be an immediate death knell for a new fancy dojo in a rich town. But he got lucky on the first day. In something that could have been a disaster.

The only times he would teach would be when there were attractive women watching a class. The first class in the school was a kids class. About ten kids. Five attractive mothers watching. I'm in the back of the class, stretching.

The first thing he teaches is to bow in. Then a ready stance, a horse stance and a fighting stance. He's showing a ready stance. About ten seconds into the kids standing in a ready stance, a kid in the front row, maybe eleven years old, passes out, falls face first, stiff like a tree, and face plants on the tile floor. Blood everywhere. He doesn't even check the kid, just sprints to his office and calls for an ambulance. Nothing wrong with that.

Within MINUTES, because all the stations are near by - four police cars, an ambulance, three firetrucks, all lights flashing and sirens blaring, screech up to the school and rush inside. I've checked the kid, spoke with him, sat him up and was attending him when they pull up.

All the emergency vehicles, especially with the lights and sirens, brought half the damn town to come rushing to the school. It was nuts. They bring the boy out on a stretcher, blood all over his gi top, some on his face, and take him away. Word spread like wildfire.

And the next day there were fifty people who signed up, no exaggeration. Go figure.

Fortunately for me, the mothers who were there spread the word that you wanted the red belt with the beard to teach you or your kids.

Anyway, that's the guy I was dealing with. Replaced just about everything he did, had no choice really. Thankfully, it worked out well.
 

isshinryuronin

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
783
Reaction score
604
Location
Las Vegas
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I listed 73 because that's when we replaced the BS that my phony instructor was doing. By 73 he had turned over all the teaching to me, he just wanted the tuition money, which was fine with me. Some might say, 'Why didn't you just go someplace else?" There really wasn't many places around back then, and none near by. And my boxing gym was a block away. It was great.

The guy taught exercises wrong, made stuff up, if he read something in a Karate magazine he'd teach it in class the next day, not knowing what the hell he was talking about - and made up a story about how he won a tournament with it.

When I took over, the student number dramatically increased over the next six months. So he opened another school in a rich town about ten miles away. He was having a Grand Opening. He had business cards that said he was "The Director". Gave business cards to me, nice ones too, that said I was the Chief Instructor. He then had a well advertised Open House couple days before classes were to start. I actually had hope.

The Open House comes. I'm even wearing a three piece suit and a tie. One of the people that came showed me the full page ad the "director" had run. It listed American Karate all right, but in even bigger print, with Martial designs as well, it listed Shaolin Kung Fu, Chinese Kenpo and one other style, I forget which one, that was TAUGHT in our new dojo. I wasn't about to lie. When asked if I was instructing those as well, I said "No, I've never studied them. Neither has he. Ask him, I don't run ads, I teach American Karate. And I was asked a lot that day.

You might think that would be an immediate death knell for a new fancy dojo in a rich town. But he got lucky on the first day. In something that could have been a disaster.

The only times he would teach would be when there were attractive women watching a class. The first class in the school was a kids class. About ten kids. Five attractive mothers watching. I'm in the back of the class, stretching.

The first thing he teaches is to bow in. Then a ready stance, a horse stance and a fighting stance. He's showing a ready stance. About ten seconds into the kids standing in a ready stance, a kid in the front row, maybe eleven years old, passes out, falls face first, stiff like a tree, and face plants on the tile floor. Blood everywhere. He doesn't even check the kid, just sprints to his office and calls for an ambulance. Nothing wrong with that.

Within MINUTES, because all the stations are near by - four police cars, an ambulance, three firetrucks, all lights flashing and sirens blaring, screech up to the school and rush inside. I've checked the kid, spoke with him, sat him up and was attending him when they pull up.

All the emergency vehicles, especially with the lights and sirens, brought half the damn town to come rushing to the school. It was nuts. They bring the boy out on a stretcher, blood all over his gi top, some on his face, and take him away. Word spread like wildfire.

And the next day there were fifty people who signed up, no exaggeration. Go figure.

Fortunately for me, the mothers who were there spread the word that you wanted the red belt with the beard to teach you or your kids.

Anyway, that's the guy I was dealing with. Replaced just about everything he did, had no choice really. Thankfully, it worked out well.
I want to know more about those five attractive karate moms. It was a reality that being the (young) chief instructor had its perks - But that was SOOOO long ago. In that time period, Kung Fu, was king on TV and many MA schools advertised as kung fu and it became better known than the name "karate." Parker joked with me that many people thought karate was a type of sushi, so didn't mind the "kung fu" moniker. Whatever brought them in. That was the Golden Age of MA business with no lack of students. But the BS line has to be drawn somewhere. Happy to read you had a chance to do that in your teaching.
 

Rat

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
183
Boxers do circuits for strength and conditioning also pad work is completely dependent on the pad holder....most boxercise pad holders just let you smack the pads with no technique because they don’t care about that it’s just the exercise of it that matters. But obviously real boxing pad holders will be pointing out corrections and small details to help refine technique and be giving good combos not just circuit type combos

I know WHY they do them. But if you go into a boxing class and you only see them do that and no one really explains to you if they will teach you to box and you want to box, you see the issue. (especially if we are talking about a pre 18, or even 16 me) Let alone if you generally think half the exercises you cant do and they will get you to do the substitutes that done work.


But, yeah thats the diffrence between boxercise, boxercise and just somone recognising you dont want to get into boxing so wont have you spar, but will still teach you how to box. I would presume a proper boxing coach generally doesnt have the heart to let it go to boxercise, like you find in gyms normally. (would like to think that anyway)
 

Latest Discussions

Top