Benefits of tournaments

[terryl965]

Just wanted to get everybody perspective on the benefits of dueing tournament.
Due you see it as a pro or con for the competitors now a days.
I myself have been doing these tournaments for years now but I'm becoming more of it is a dis-service to your fighters with all the politics that goes along with them.

Terry

 

[evenflow1121]

I think anything can be good with moderation. Tournaments are beneficial in my opinion anyway because it exposes students to other styles, or if within the same style other schools, different fighters, applications, ect. I dont see the harm in attending 1 or 2 tournaments a year really. In fact, I see them as a great learning experience for martial art students.

 

[TigerWoman]

Our school doesn't participate anymore in the regional or national tournaments anymore. I guess because not too much good came out of them. And now the master doesn't encourage or train anyone to go for national competition.

We have local tournaments and go to other schools, a reciprocal arrangement usually. Tournaments give participants a viewpoint of their instruction as compared to others. It also exposes students to different martial arts as we have opens. It gives the student a goal to practice for and hone his/her skills. Students tend to pick what they are interested in, and then they spend additional time to practice. I know I tried alot of different breaking in tournaments as I didn't care so much to win, but to see what I could do. It was fun. There was comraderie when old friends got together to compete against each other all in fun. But the formality of competing in front of judges for form was always more rattling than the master and panel of black belts for testing, somehow. You learn to focus and control your nerves. You learn not to put too much on yourself to win but train for it and just go out there and do your best. I always had an inside joke with the master that I would gladly just trade in all our tropies (three of us) and recycle them. After all it was about the journey not the "memento". TW

 

[Andrew Green]

Tournaments are always a mixed bag. For some people it can really get them motivated and focused. But then there is the negative sides...

Personally I think less formal open mat sessions, or friendly meets with other groups are a much better way to go when possible.

 

[FearlessFreep]

To me, the only reason to do a tournament is to test my chops, so to speak, against my conemporaries. One way to see if what I'm doing is really working, in terms of is my training moving me ahead in my own skill and understanding, is to measure myself against other guys my approximate age and experience. So organized competition is one way to do that because it forces me to compete against people I may never have met.


When I 'to me' that just means that that's what I do it for myself, not that I think it's the only way it should be done.

I try not to 'gear up' for something like that because, like belt testing, this is who I am so it seems somewhat disingenious to prepare specially for a one time event. When I go in, I am who I am and that's as good or as bad as I am in that stage of my training. I *do* try to use opportunities for measurement such as these to drive me to be better, but I'm driving to be better overall, not just for that one afternoon.

Training is a marathon, not a sprint. A tournament is a chance to look up and see where you are, but it's not the end of the race

 

[Jagermeister]

Training is a marathon, not a sprint. A tournament is a chance to look up and see where you are, but it's not the end of the race

That's a nice metaphor. Who'd you steal that one from?

 

[FearlessFreep]

That's a nice metaphor. Who'd you steal that one from

Thanks! Just made it up : )

 

[Gemini]

I agree they're a mixed bag, but I feel any artist can benefit from the experience to a degree. As we've discussed on many occasions, if you allow yourself or your student to get caught up in the win/lose aspect, you're going to be forever disappointed. There are too many (and often suspect) variables that could lead you to a wrong conclusion or negative experience. But, if your going to use it as a gauge marking your self improvement, it can be very beneficial. Additionally, what works, what doesn't, and to me, one of the most important lessons, how to deal with the adrenaline pump/dump that accompanies competition. Learning to control yourself both physically and mentally in an absolute necessity, and competition offers that to a degree. I do agree it isn't the be all, end all of all things, but does serve a useful purpose. I've never forced competition on my boys. It's always been an elective. They do it because they want to. When I coach them, I don't really care about the score or the opponent for that matter, I watch them and how they handle certain situations. But when they tell me they've had enough, that'll be it.

 

[The MMA kid!]

I think too much focus on tournaments loses focus on what the martial arts was made for-self defense.

all the rules and politics that go into tournaments, especially WTF TKD tournaments, seperates and singles out the sport aspect of the art. it actually gets to the point where i can't even watch TKD tournaments anymore.
now, I may get flamed for this, but the rule of TKD sparring allows too much room for bad habits. (hands down, relying on rules etc.) what i thought would be a glorious day for Tae kwon do when it entered the Olympics, was actually a dark day for me. I remember watching the tv and not even be able to believe my eyes. I was filled with embarrassment when i saw these Tae kwon do fighters bouncing around with they're hands down. "are these men the best in our style" i thought to myself.
now i have spoken to a couple of masters who have told me that 20 some odd years ago, TKD was not this way.
so no, I dont find a whole lot of good going to these TKD tournaments, unless you want to go play foot-tag with someone else that is good at foot-tag.
- I know that the sparring we see today in many of our TKD tournaments have just completely seperated itself for what Tae kwon do was made for.
for the sportsman, i think going to Olympic style TKD tournaments is good, but not for a person who is wanting to know how good a fighter he/sher really is.

 

[karatekid1975]

The last tourny I was in was beneficial to me. The first time I tested for 1st gup, I failed (pressure). But at this last tourny, I didn't have time to be nervous (like previous ones). I was working (judging, ect). I did my form and had to go right back to work.

It taught me if I don't "think" about it, I can do it. If I'm relaxed, I can do it. My test was a week later, and I wasn't nervous at all. I was like, "hey, if the tourny can be that easy, so can my test." I aced the test. And I got 2nd in forms in the tourny after beating out 4 BB's (but I did get beat by another red belt LOL, but I did beat her at the test if that counts ... she always beats me in breaking, but I creamed her at the test. Too bad it wasn't a tourny .... LOL).

Tournies to me, help with the pressure part. Working under pressure, as my instructor puts it. I know the sparring is "not self defense" but getting put under pressure like that will teach you to stay calm in a self defense situation.

 

[Last Fearner]

I agree with what most of the others have said here. Tournaments can be pleasant, and unpleasant. I see this all as a positive benefit. Anything that is challenging can only serve to better you if you don't let it destroy you. Don't worry about the politics. Just go have fun, challenge yourself, and learn something!

I recall many of us "Taekwondo" people in the '70s feeling like we weren't getting a fair shake at tournaments back then because they were "Karate/Kung-Fu" open. None of the judges knew our forms, and didn't understand the movements of Taekwondo so we usually lost (even if our forms were top notch). In sparring, we often beat the tar out of the opponent only to lose 5 to nothing. We scratched our heads and wondered if the other guy was being awarded points for getting hit. :boxing: :lol:

Anyhow, I remember when they were holding their 15th annual Okinawan Karate/Kung Fu/Jujitsu championship, and we were starting our "1st annual Taekwondo Tournament (or "Taekwondo/Karate" as many were called). I have seen Taekwondo tournaments go through many phases and improve a great deal over the years. There is always something to be learned from the experience from both open as well as closed Taekwodo events. When you have competed long enough, you learn to coach or judge. When you have judged long enough, you learn to host your own tournaments. Then you can begin to make a difference in how tournaments are run.

I think too much focus on tournaments loses focus on what the martial arts was made for-self defense. . .

. . .now, I may get flamed for this, but the rule of TKD sparring allows too much room for bad habits. (hands down, relying on rules etc.) ...I was filled with embarrassment when i saw these Tae kwon do fighters bouncing around with they're hands down. "are these men the best in our style" i thought to myself. . . i think going to Olympic style TKD tournaments is good, but not for a person who is wanting to know how good a fighter he/sher really is.

MMA kid. I'm not going to "flame" you, but I will say you are right on one aspect. Your first line about "too much focus on tournaments" is correct. This is why we need balance and to train for self defense while using tournaments as a supplimental training environment. There are skills to be gained by learining how to quickly adapt to another fighters "style" of sparring. Learning quick reflexes to avoid contact, and counter before the window is lost. I can gain Martial Art fighting skills from playing soccer or tag football. These WTF Olympic tournaments are challenging, and a lessor skilled fighter will not last.

One more thing though. Some fighters do rely on rules and rules often limit the full range of self defense options, but there are also many advantages to these "hands down games of tag" you mentioned. First of all, beginner students are taught to keep their guards up and block an attack. This is good basic knowledge, but black belt fighters actually have an advantage with their arms down.

This is an advanced fighting skill and not a reliance on rules. We use the key element of self defense which is distancing. I let an opponent come as close as a fraction of an inch without moving too far away so I can counter. Other times, I will displace my body to absorb a medium impact off center of the intended target, taking a reduced hit without blocking. My arms are held down and slightly foward to force an opponent's kick to go wide if they want to kick the head making it easier for me to see coming and evade with distance rather than a block.

No one can move their arms fast enough to block every kick, thus it is better to learn how not to get hit. If I cover the opponent's rising leg with my arms, I keep their leg from reaching the head, I maintain it at body level where it will do less damage. I would do the same thing in the street (and have) with great success.

The first time I saw WTF Olympic fighting on TV I had never done it, and was stunned like you. It didn't resemble anything I had done, or seen in tournaments over the years, and I didn't understand it. However, since I've been involved in competing, coaching, and judging olympics, I see the method to the madness. Blocking is good when needed, but learning distancing is primary. For instance, what if your arms were broken, or your hands tied behind your back, could you win a street fight that way? What if you were holding two attackers with wrist locks, and had to defend against a third? Being skilled with slight distancing, evasions, and keeping your opponent away with defensive kicks might help.

I hope this helps to give you a different perspective without stepping on your toes, so to speak - lol - - Take care!

Sr. Master Eisenhart

 

[Makalakumu]

I've been to a bunch of different tournaments for a bunch of different reasons...

1. I went to tournaments to win. Whether it was MMA or full contact kumite or point sparring, it didn't matter. I like competing and winning. It's not about collecting trophies, its just a reflection of my desire for sportsmanship.

2. Tournaments beat the heck out of "dojo storming". I would rather have a lot of tournaments where people can test their skills so schools do not feel like they need to invade other schools in order to get some competition. I think that if someone were to study incidences of dojo storming and the increasing amounts of tournaments, one would find an inversely proportional relationship.

There are certainly problems with tournaments, but there are positives...

 

[Jagermeister]

so no, I dont find a whole lot of good going to these TKD tournaments, unless you want to go play foot-tag with someone else that is good at foot-tag.

That's a good way to put it.

 

[Miles]

If you look at a tournament as an opportunity to test yourself against similar sized and experienced competitors, I think it is great. I don't require my students to participate in tournaments, but many do, and I encourage their participation.

I have, like most everyone else, seen some goofy things happen at tournaments, but the test is within oneself. It is not whether you win or lose, but how well you played the game and what you learned about yourself at the end of the day. You learn about your strengths, weaknesses-not only within the sporting aspect of Taekwondo, but also how you faced the anticipation/fear/anxiety of putting yourself on the line.

As far as the politics go, hey, that's fine too-the competitors themselves know when they won (or lost) if they are honest with themselves....Now the parents, they are another story........

Miles