Beginner want comment on cane fight practice

Alan0354

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Hi

I have been practice self defense with walking cane for the last 4 months. I posted a thread in Philippine Martial Arts section over a month ago and got comments. Since, I changed a lot and I don't think it's Escrima style already, so I post here this time.

I changed to two hands holding the cane like Katana and learn more from Irish Stick Fighting for more poking and like punching. Please comment and guidance to improve.

This is hitting bags:

This is just air:
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Please comment and guidance to improve.
Since you may assume your opponent also has a cane, you may include some techniques that combine defense and offense into one.

When you train a technique, you should ask yourself, "What principle am I training this technique for?" Ususlly a principle can be mapped into many techniques.

The following technique uses the principle - deflect your opponent's weapon then attack the opening that you have just created (This principle is also used in the open hand striking art). Please notice that he doesn't just block his opponent's attack. He use his weapon to bounce his opponent's weapon away and attack back at the same time.

In most of the sword fight movie, you chop at me, I block. I chop back at you, you block. Very few movies have fight that combine defense and offense into one. I don't understand why.

From your other posts, I can tell that you don't like CMA. CMA is built on top of principles. Each principle then map into different techniques.

https://i.postimg.cc/8P9xFjKM/miao-diao-comb-hair.gif
 
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Alan0354

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Since you may assume your opponent also has a cane, you may include some techniques that combine defense and offense into one.

When you train a technique, you should ask yourself, "What principle am I training this technique for?" Ususlly a principle can be mapped into many techniques.

The following technique uses the principle - deflect your opponent's weapon then attack the opening that you have just created (This principle is also used in the open hand striking art). Please notice that he doesn't just block his opponent's attack. He use his weapon to bounce his opponent's weapon away and attack back at the same time.

In most of the sword fight movie, you chop at me, I block. I chop back at you, you block. Very few movies have fight that combine defense and offense into one. I don't understand why.

From your other posts, I can tell that you don't like CMA. CMA is built on top of principles. Each principle then map into different techniques.

https://i.postimg.cc/8P9xFjKM/miao-diao-comb-hair.gif
Thanks

My problem is I am practicing alone, I cannot practice defensive blocking and counter attack. You need two people to practice together for that. That's why I concentrate on sequence of hitting and try to move away after attack to avoid being hit.

From watching the video myself, I am slow!!! I need to practice to move faster(if I can!!! Again, I hate getting old). I still don't put enough hip and shoulder into the swing.

What is CMA?
 

geezer

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Hi

I have been practice self defense with walking cane for the last 4 months. I posted a thread in Philippine Martial Arts section over a month ago and got comments. Since, I changed a lot and I don't think it's Escrima style already, so I post here this time.

I changed to two hands holding the cane like Katana and learn more from Irish Stick Fighting for more poking and like punching. Please comment and guidance to improve.
Looks like you are taking a more practical approach than before. That's good. Also, working the bags will make you stronger. One thing to think about is when you move in close to strike with the middle and the ends often invites your opponent to grab and grapple your cane.

To some degree you can discourage this by striking and withdrawing rather than leaving the middle of your cane "hanging out" to be grabbed.

Another technique is to practice circling the end over and to the center, breaking the grip. Try turning and using your body to power the circling movement.

...like this:
or this:
or even this lunatic:


Finally, if your stick is grabbed in the center and immobilized, as you press one side forward you can release your grip on the stick and follow through with a punch. Repeat as needed, then re-grab you stick and break it free.

You really need a training partner though, someone who will start light and then work up to some fierce resistance so you know if you can really make your moves work. ;)
 

JowGaWolf

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From watching the video myself, I am slow!!! I need to practice to move faster(if I can!!! Again, I hate getting old). I still don't put enough hip and shoulder into the swing
Seems like you have a good grasp of what needs to be done. I was going to bring up these areas. I wouldn't worry about moving faster or power at the moment. 2 things. learn to be more relaxed. Relaxation brings speed and power. Work on more thrusts those are going to be your close ranged techniques.

I couldn't tell if you were breathing or not. If not, then breath more. Don't hold your breath.

When you do your drills and strike the bag. Visualize attacking someone. First start with a single strike with a focus of striking at a distance or trying to create distance.

Example drill. Start close, do one strike. Back up to create enough distance to put you in position for a big swing. Learn to back up at different angles and not just straight back. The reason I say this because as I saw you swing the cane, I kept thinking that I should smother your swings and take your cane and then beat you with it.

Spend one day drilling a variety of one strike and keeping distance. Assume the person you are hitting is going to try to smother you. Do this until you can be relaxed with the striking and the movement.

After you get good with one strike then add 1 strike before you move and one strike after you move.

After you get good with one strike. Then do 2 strikes and move. 2 close range attacks then back up to create distance. When you get good with that then you train, 2 strikes close range and back up and do 2 long range strikes.

I hope I didn't make that confusing.

Footwork is the most important thing. It looks like you have some strong legs make good use of them to keep you out of range. If you have a cane then you don't want to be in close range for too long. Distance is your advantage.
 

JowGaWolf

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To some degree you can discourage this by striking and withdrawing rather than leaving the middle of your cane "hanging out" to be grabbed.
yep stick and move. If I fight with a staff, I want to maximize my ability to strike at a distance. I think the same way with a can that gives me an advantage with striking at a distance. If all I'm going to do is just within grappling range then I might as well just take BJJ and leave the cane at home lol.

The one thing that I work on with I train my staff is what to do if someone grabs my staff. Of all the things that I train, I want that to be the strongest point where I when the battle over the staff each time. This is my general perspective of having a weapon. No one should be able to take it away from me and use it against me. Because people will try. Canes are blunt weapons and some people are willing to take a few swings on their arms and body if it means they get a chance to grapple the weapon free and then use.

The second video, the technique at @0:55 is in Jow Ga Kung Fu. Does that really work? All of those techniques are similar to staff techniques, except the one @0:55. That's more like technique at @0:54 in the video below.

The problem I was having with this technique is that I couldn't image when there would ever be a time that someone grabs my wrist like they grabbed that cane.

Thanks for those videos.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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My problem is I am practicing alone,
It's difficult to train MA without partner. Many years ago, I put an ad in a local gym that anybody would spar with me for 5 rounds, I would pay that person $20. I even asked my next door neighbor that I would let him to attack me and I would only play defense.

MA training is no fun without partner.
 
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Alan0354

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Thanks guys for the comments, I need to read them over a few times.

First question: Notice I use both ends of the cane to hit like punching. I do that thinking about it's like jab and reverse punch that I do a lot bare knuckled. I thought this is a good way to like punching the opponent and the cane is a lot harder and with sharp edge than the fist. This can do more damage AND it's spontaneous to do as I do a lot of punching for years. But it sounds like there is concern of the opponent grabbing the cane in the middle. Is that something I should not do? Should I concentrate more on poking alone that is harder for opponent to grab the cane?

Finding a partner is hard, I don't know anyone that are into this. That's why I try to attack in a sequence and try to attack hard.

I hope the way I cover the cane on both ends like in the first video can protect the kicking bags. I really don't want to use old tires, I want to use kicking bags as it's more like the body of the person. Also I set up two bags so I can go back and fore to get better distancing judgement. It's hard to make canes for hitting bags, I have to buy a few of the same canes, one wrapping both ends for bags, one just for swinging in air. The sickening things is I have to have canes with foam handle for carrying out. Those rubber foam doesn't last, it gets soft, squeeze out of shape after a few sections. I have to have cane that not being used just to carry out to keep the handle looks good.

Last question: is there a way to upload video to the forum without using youtube. I really don't want to post a lot of video in public domain. Please let me know if there's a way.

Thanks
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I really don't want to post a lot of video in public domain.
Old Chinese saying said, "When geese fly over, it's sound will remain in the sky. When a tiger dies, it's skin will be hung on the wall. When a tree dies, it's trunk will remain on the ground. When a person passes away, his video will remain online."

1000 years from today, people will remember you because your video.
 
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Alan0354

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Old Chinese saying said, "When geese fly over, it's sound will remain in the sky. When a tiger dies, it's skin will be hung on the wall. When a tree dies, it's trunk will remain on the ground. When a person passes away, his video will remain online."

1000 years from today, people will remember you because your video.
Remember my slow movements? That's ok, I rather only the relevant people see it only.
 
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Since you may assume your opponent also has a cane,
Id rather base that off trends in his own area, for example, literally no one will have one here unless they are old for walking on, i think i have only seen 3 people with them around, now if your talking height of the swagger stick as part of fashion, fair enough. But if your really unlikely to come across someone with one, or they are going to be old ad hoc will probbly work fine. Unless they happen to also do cane fighting, but thats really uncommon.
 

JowGaWolf

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Is that something I should not do? Should I concentrate more on poking alone that is harder for opponent to grab the cane?
Pokes are harder to defend against. They don't feel good either. They work with both short and long range attacks. They have a faster reload speed.

Swings to attack bones and joints
Pokes to attack everything else.
 

JowGaWolf

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Id rather base that off trends in his own area, for example, literally no one will have one here unless they are old for walking on, i think i have only seen 3 people with them around, now if your talking height of the swagger stick as part of fashion, fair enough. But if your really unlikely to come across someone with one, or they are going to be old ad hoc will probbly work fine. Unless they happen to also do cane fighting, but thats really uncommon.
Good point. I have yet to see anyone else walk in my neighborhood with a staff or a cane. The chances that I will run into someone with one is slim unless a person knows that I have one and is coming for me. But at that point, based on where I live, that person would most likely have a gun to get an advantage.

Younger guys are not likely to have a cane on the norm. I normally don't see canes or sticks until people hit their late 30's and 40's.
 
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Alan0354

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Looks like you are taking a more practical approach than before. That's good. Also, working the bags will make you stronger. One thing to think about is when you move in close to strike with the middle and the ends often invites your opponent to grab and grapple your cane.

To some degree you can discourage this by striking and withdrawing rather than leaving the middle of your cane "hanging out" to be grabbed.

Another technique is to practice circling the end over and to the center, breaking the grip. Try turning and using your body to power the circling movement.

...like this:
or this:
or even this lunatic:


Finally, if your stick is grabbed in the center and immobilized, as you press one side forward you can release your grip on the stick and follow through with a punch. Repeat as needed, then re-grab you stick and break it free.

You really need a training partner though, someone who will start light and then work up to some fierce resistance so you know if you can really make your moves work. ;)
Thanks

I watched through the videos. I practice like the first two videos on and off. I did not show that in my video because it looks funny doing it by myself. The third videos you posted is kind of strange, I never practice that, I don't feel that comfortable with the way he did it.

Part also I did not show is I do practice grab defense by using Wing Chun step kick to the knee of the opponent if he tries to grab my cane.

I'll work more on grabbing defense, but it's hard to find a partner to practice. Most people my age I talked to feel "offended" when I suggest them to use a cane and use it for self defense!!! They feel that makes them look OLD and they don't want to even consider picking up the cane. Looks like I am the only one that don't mind carrying a cane everywhere!!! Too bad I don't join any gym since the pandemic. I used to go to the gym, I could have asked the people there. But I set up the weight training routine at home and that save me driving time. Since I added the cane training, I am up to 7 hours a week, I don't have the time to waste driving back and fore the gym anymore. As is, it's very time consuming just working out. 7 hours/wk is almost like 2 hours a day, 5 days a week!!! All my mornings are gone!!!

Thanks
 
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Alan0354

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Seems like you have a good grasp of what needs to be done. I was going to bring up these areas. I wouldn't worry about moving faster or power at the moment. 2 things. learn to be more relaxed. Relaxation brings speed and power. Work on more thrusts those are going to be your close ranged techniques.

I couldn't tell if you were breathing or not. If not, then breath more. Don't hold your breath.

When you do your drills and strike the bag. Visualize attacking someone. First start with a single strike with a focus of striking at a distance or trying to create distance.

Example drill. Start close, do one strike. Back up to create enough distance to put you in position for a big swing. Learn to back up at different angles and not just straight back. The reason I say this because as I saw you swing the cane, I kept thinking that I should smother your swings and take your cane and then beat you with it.

Spend one day drilling a variety of one strike and keeping distance. Assume the person you are hitting is going to try to smother you. Do this until you can be relaxed with the striking and the movement.

After you get good with one strike then add 1 strike before you move and one strike after you move.

After you get good with one strike. Then do 2 strikes and move. 2 close range attacks then back up to create distance. When you get good with that then you train, 2 strikes close range and back up and do 2 long range strikes.

I hope I didn't make that confusing.

Footwork is the most important thing. It looks like you have some strong legs make good use of them to keep you out of range. If you have a cane then you don't want to be in close range for too long. Distance is your advantage.
Thank

You are the second one to bring up the breathing. I have to practice exhaling on the strike. I notice when I strike with both ends of the cane like jab and reverse punch, I breath. I get used to doing punching and don't have breathing problem. Swinging the cane is new and I never pay attention. Maybe that's the reason I am out of breath a lot easier when doing cane compare to bare knuckle practice. I do 7mins rounds, by the end of 7 mins. I will be huffing and puffing doing cane. But with normal bare knuckle, I am fine.

I thought I should swing as hard as I can to get power!!! You mean to swing relax?

Thanks
 

JowGaWolf

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You are the second one to bring up the breathing. I have to practice exhaling on the strike.
It comes from watching other people train and trying to notice their breathing pattern as they go through the motion. If you can pick up someone's breathing pattern, then you can exploit it. When I was watching your video, it felt like I was tense and that I wasn't breathing properly

Breathing is the 2nd most important thing. You can't relax without correct breathing and your body will tense up. Take deep breaths and you'll feel the tension leave your body. Hold your breath and you'll feel the tension in your body build up. It's like we try to make our body tense to keep the air in when we hold our breath. When we tense up, we burn out of energy quickly.

I thought I should swing as hard as I can to get power!!! You mean to swing relax?
Yes. Relax. Power is created through relaxation. If you want to hit something extremely hard, then you must relax. It's not a total relaxation. You only want to have tension where you need it and when you need it. Let's look at your cane. You will need tension in your hand because you must make sure the cane doesn't come out of your hand when you swing. You need tension at the strike or just before impact so that the impact is solid, After the impact you want start the relaxation again. But everything else should be relaxed.

Same concept of relaxing different activity.

If you have trouble relaxing, then hit a lighter target like a foam ball in a plastic bag.

This is one of my punching drills that I use to help me with punching. I put a tennis ball in a sock, and I practice being relaxed without being slow. Since you are using a cane, I'm thinking of a bag or something with shirts in it, something that's not going to bounce off the cane. This will keep you from focusing on hitting too hard and it will naturally cause you to relax. Do the drill a couple of days a week for 10 to 15 minutes before hitting the heavy bag and you'll notice the difference after 2 weeks.

I don't think I have cane, but if I find something similar then I'll video the drill.
 

JowGaWolf

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If you try to throw 4 punches in 1 second 1000 times daily, you will understand breathing.

1. Throw 4 punches (without moving your feet).
2. Walk 4 steps,
3. Repeat 1, 2.
ha ha ha. what number do you pass out on?
 
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