Backbone to self defense
- Thread starter Rob Broad
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WLMantisKid
Guest
No, Good basics are.
O
OC Kid
Guest
The back bone to SD is to be in control of any situation. "The situation dictates the response" Dan Anderson
You must have a clear mind and be able to think through any situation. Action is faster than reaction
You must have a clear mind and be able to think through any situation. Action is faster than reaction
Brother John
Senior Master
I feel that sparing, if emphasized at all, will lead to poor ability to handle a REAL altercation.
Just my opinion.
who am I?
Your Brother
John
that's who
Just my opinion.
who am I?
Your Brother
John
that's who
OP
OP
I should quantify that I am not talking about the typical game of tag where you get a point for punching close enough to move their hair but not cose enough to make any sound because there is no contact. I can not saying that sparring is the end all to beat all, I am trying to start a dialogue on the usefulness/uselessness of sparring when it comes to self defense. Point tag that is seen in way to many schools really doesn't do much for anyone other than give a cardio work out.
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
The key I belive is by looking at how the Masters of the Arts handle the problems.
They after many years of training go with the very basics due to the use of timing and knowledge of how a person will throw a kick or a punch and being able to use the attack to thier own benefit.
Keep practicing those basics and use them in sparring and get that into your muscle memory and you will do well. A combination of the two (basics used while sparring)would be ideal.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
They after many years of training go with the very basics due to the use of timing and knowledge of how a person will throw a kick or a punch and being able to use the attack to thier own benefit.
Keep practicing those basics and use them in sparring and get that into your muscle memory and you will do well. A combination of the two (basics used while sparring)would be ideal.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
In a previous post I equated knowing basics with knowing yourself. I equated sparring with learning about your opponent.
Sun-tzu said know yourself and win 50% of the time know your enemy and win 50% of the time, know both and win all the time.
But self defence isn't about winning, it's about not losing. Basic running skills (these take practice too!) are more useful than sparring in this sort of situation.
Sun-tzu said know yourself and win 50% of the time know your enemy and win 50% of the time, know both and win all the time.
But self defence isn't about winning, it's about not losing. Basic running skills (these take practice too!) are more useful than sparring in this sort of situation.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
Good question. I agree that sparring is useful, because it helps you learn to move, hit, take a hit, evade, and to use your basics. However, IMHO, the strategy for self-defense is very different. No matter how brutal you get in sparring, the idea is not, for most of us, to defuse the situation, or to kill, maim, or disable your sparring partner, and beat a hasty retreat, which is the basis for self-defensive strategy.
I think mental strategies, one-steps, and floor fighting are equally useful. I also learned a thing or two from adrenal stress training.
The last thing I, a small person, would want to do would be to put up my dukes and spar with a bad guy.
I think mental strategies, one-steps, and floor fighting are equally useful. I also learned a thing or two from adrenal stress training.
The last thing I, a small person, would want to do would be to put up my dukes and spar with a bad guy.
Awareness for avoidance is the first best defense, but I think that sparring is a very useful tool to help prepare a person for an actual self defense situation, should initial awareness fail. Once in fight mode though, the very nature of sparring heightens your sense of awareness. The usefulness to me has most to do with learning to move and become more automatic in those movements. Sparring helps to develop your actions and reactions and provides an opportunity to practice your basics like blocks, kicks, punches and foot maneuvers. It also teaches you how to create distance and evade an attack - as my primary goal is not to fight it is to get away. It has helped me to develop multiple hand strikes, and develop more planned attacks, and automate my counter attacks. Also IÂ’ve learned to regulate my breathing in a fight and how to reserve energy by not wasting motion, as wasted motion leads to fatigue.
That being said, I think it is important to balance sparring with other practical self defense experiences, especially for women, as generally a man is less likely to square off with a woman. They will want to grab her and take her to the ground generally. For my last test it was a combination of sparring for years beforehand, and practicing my self defense techniques that helped prepare me. It was the "no mind" portion of the test and not the sparring portion of the test that in reviewing the tapes showed me what my skills really are. I have maybe 100 techniques against a step through right punch and only maybe one of the guys threw a right at me. The attacks were mostly bear hugs with take downs or attempted takedowns and grabs. It was there that I saw that if necessary I could defend myself against a man, or at the very least die trying... :jedi1:
MJ :asian:
That being said, I think it is important to balance sparring with other practical self defense experiences, especially for women, as generally a man is less likely to square off with a woman. They will want to grab her and take her to the ground generally. For my last test it was a combination of sparring for years beforehand, and practicing my self defense techniques that helped prepare me. It was the "no mind" portion of the test and not the sparring portion of the test that in reviewing the tapes showed me what my skills really are. I have maybe 100 techniques against a step through right punch and only maybe one of the guys threw a right at me. The attacks were mostly bear hugs with take downs or attempted takedowns and grabs. It was there that I saw that if necessary I could defend myself against a man, or at the very least die trying... :jedi1:
MJ :asian:
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
lol!, I love sun-tzu. I happen to practice a fighting system that works very well in the street. And, I worked as a bouncer for several years, so I can give an interesting spin on this.
As a bouncer, most times, you don't get to actually fight. It's mostly locks/bars until you get the kuffs on. However, on occasion (but not any more, that's why i got bored) a mini-riot will break out, where people can't tell the difference between their drunken selves, and trained professionals. Now, you'd think that drunk people would be easier to fight, right? Nope.They're lunatics. So, i'ma have ta go with basics, and deing aware of your surroundings. . .particularly w/multiple attackers. . .having a mag light doesn't hurt, either!, lol In my experience, your instincts are the only tool you'll have in a situation like that. Rarely does the opportunity to plan and execute a strike or counter present itself; so, thinking does not apply, it just happens too fast. That's why good basics are key here. I'm a great stand-up fighter, but I've never thrown blows as bouncer, all been ground and pound when the **** really hit the fan. Hope this helps, all!
AJ
As a bouncer, most times, you don't get to actually fight. It's mostly locks/bars until you get the kuffs on. However, on occasion (but not any more, that's why i got bored) a mini-riot will break out, where people can't tell the difference between their drunken selves, and trained professionals. Now, you'd think that drunk people would be easier to fight, right? Nope.They're lunatics. So, i'ma have ta go with basics, and deing aware of your surroundings. . .particularly w/multiple attackers. . .having a mag light doesn't hurt, either!, lol In my experience, your instincts are the only tool you'll have in a situation like that. Rarely does the opportunity to plan and execute a strike or counter present itself; so, thinking does not apply, it just happens too fast. That's why good basics are key here. I'm a great stand-up fighter, but I've never thrown blows as bouncer, all been ground and pound when the **** really hit the fan. Hope this helps, all!
AJ
O
OC Kid
Guest
Its repetition of basic self defense techniques. The ability to react to a situation where say a person grabs you or pushes you and strikes at you with a club. To say that sparring is the end all of SD IMO is not correct. I tell my students never to bang with someone. take them out and take them out quick. The longer the fight goes the more likely of them losing becomes more and more a reality.
BTW I also teach them there are only 2 reasons to fight life and money(in the ring). everything else is a waist.
The end result of a actual self defense situation is not to win but to survive.
BTW I also teach them there are only 2 reasons to fight life and money(in the ring). everything else is a waist.
The end result of a actual self defense situation is not to win but to survive.
G
Gary Crawford
Guest
I love sparring,having said that,sparring is good for learning to defend yourself against MA's of the same style(unless you sparr in open comps).There is a difference between sparring and a real streetfight.Unfortunatly,the MA's who are the best streetfighters are the ones the rest of us don't associate with.These people are exactly what most of us preach against.The influince of MA's is what keeps us from gaining real experience.If you want to be a good sparrer,sparr alot.If you want to be a good streetfighter,start alot of fights.This is where( I am ashamed to say) I learned the most.I really wish I was a less abled MA than I am,because if I could have avoided(or chose to do so)the real fights I have been in,I could only speak of fighting philosophy instead of " I know this works because I did it",or "I know this doesn't work because I tried it and lost".Thank God that I outgrew that!A good MA,is never a willing fighter.
hedgehogey
Green Belt
Well. You appear to have come upon the idea of "aliveness". Go to www.straightblastgym.com
In short: Yes, it is.
In short: Yes, it is.
psi_radar
Black Belt
Look out for MJ, she's a biter.
Sparring is quite a different exercise than an actual fight, though it does help hone reflexes. I know you're referring not to tag-you're it kind of sparring, but any sparring as a definition has a level of safety and... hmm ... "game-ness" to it due to the amiguity of its goals.
In a real fight, and I'm taking this to mean against more than one opponent, you have to take the fight to them (unless you're running away, obviously) and make them fight your fight. Work the angles, line them up, and then close range and disable individuals with a minimum of effort without becoming too involved and allowing the others to close on you.
I think the best practice for this is drills that provide committed attacks by skilled opponents with a goal in mind, such as pinning you to the ground, with as much realism and force as possible while still maintaining a level of control. You also should have a goal, such as getting all your opponents on the ground at the same time or getting safely through a doorway. In a way I suppose this can be construed as sparring or a game but it's the commitment of the attack, the absence of the clock, and the acheivement of "survival goals" that really makes it feel like a simulation instead of a game.
Sparring is quite a different exercise than an actual fight, though it does help hone reflexes. I know you're referring not to tag-you're it kind of sparring, but any sparring as a definition has a level of safety and... hmm ... "game-ness" to it due to the amiguity of its goals.
In a real fight, and I'm taking this to mean against more than one opponent, you have to take the fight to them (unless you're running away, obviously) and make them fight your fight. Work the angles, line them up, and then close range and disable individuals with a minimum of effort without becoming too involved and allowing the others to close on you.
I think the best practice for this is drills that provide committed attacks by skilled opponents with a goal in mind, such as pinning you to the ground, with as much realism and force as possible while still maintaining a level of control. You also should have a goal, such as getting all your opponents on the ground at the same time or getting safely through a doorway. In a way I suppose this can be construed as sparring or a game but it's the commitment of the attack, the absence of the clock, and the acheivement of "survival goals" that really makes it feel like a simulation instead of a game.
R
RCastillo
Guest
Better yet, my questions:
*When should you allow your people to start kicking (lightly) to the legs, groin?
*How much sparring should be done if the class is 2 nites a week?
* When would one include takedowns?
To make our work better, they have to go against me when I wear my "Fist Suit" to test their techniques.(They have no pads) Everything goes. They must fight their way out/defend well, but I don't hurt them.
I do this once a month.
I'm the one usually beaten silly. :deadhorse :wah:
*When should you allow your people to start kicking (lightly) to the legs, groin?
*How much sparring should be done if the class is 2 nites a week?
* When would one include takedowns?
To make our work better, they have to go against me when I wear my "Fist Suit" to test their techniques.(They have no pads) Everything goes. They must fight their way out/defend well, but I don't hurt them.
I do this once a month.
I'm the one usually beaten silly. :deadhorse :wah:
OP
OP
I have never thought that sparring was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it does have its place. Being a kenpo practioner I believe in repetition of the basics, and doing the self defense techniques over and over until they are ingrained in your soul. But the sparring does help the student get used to many things that will help their self defense in case of a street altercation. There are many lessons to be learned in sparring, but it is not the end all to beat all.
8
8253
Guest
I believe the main thing to sd is awareness and then the ability to deal with threats verbally, and then physically. Sparring gets you more used to offensive type strikes coming at you and helps to hone you timing, but the true test is one the street. Thankfully though there are very few times that it is nessissary to test this opinion on the street.
hedgehogey
Green Belt
It's funny, you'd never see a wrestler say "No, sparring isn't the foundation of wrestling". Any athlete who tests their skills on a regular basis vs another conditioned, skilled competitor will tell you how very important sparring is.
Yet "martial artists" seem to think otherwise.
I think you'll find this video to be exactly what you're looking for: http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~jipe/sbg.wmv
Yet "martial artists" seem to think otherwise.
I think you'll find this video to be exactly what you're looking for: http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~jipe/sbg.wmv
