Back Kicks

[ajs1976]

So far I have learned two back kicks.

1. In fighting stance with the right leg back, spin on the balls of your feet so you are facing away from your opponent. Your right leg is now in front. Bring your right knee up. Bend at the waist and thrust your leg out behind you. The whole time you are lookin away from your oponent.

2. In fighting stance with the right leg back, spin on the balls of your feet so you are facing away from your opponent. Your right leg is now in front. Bring your right knee up, and turn your head and body so that you can see your opponent. Bend at the waist and thrust your leg out behind you. As you thurst, pivot on your plant foot. At full extension, you will be in a position similiar to a side kick. Looking over your shoulder at the opponent

Is the second kick actually a back kick, or is it something else? I'm kind of mashing them both together and it is causing me problems.

(FYI, i'm in the middle of an instructor change. It is causing me a lot of issues, that I need to work out)

 

[Gemini]

Andy,

First, understand that a back kick is one of the hardest kicks to execute correctly on a regular basis. Everyone does it slightly different because it requires, first and foremost, balance. Because everyone's bodies and movement are different, the execution of the kick may appear different. Don't get yourself hung up over that. I've also learned the kick both ways, however, I prefer the latter.

Depending on your instructor, a back kick may also resemble, and is sometimes referred to, a reverse side kick, making the end result of the kick the same. The instep on your plant leg foot will be facing your opponent.

Two things. You should never execute any kick while looking away from your opponent. As you pivot, your head should be turning to see the kick over your shoulder.

When you execute the kick, you may be taught to skip forward on your plant leg. This is a little more advanced and generates a great deal more power. If you are doing this, it's important to make sure you NEVER LOCK YOUR PLANT LEG KNEE. It should always be slightly bent so you don't torque the ligiments. Your heel will be facing your opponent.

Hope this offers some help.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Andy,

The first is what we call a 'spinning back kick', the second a 'spinning side kick'. The back kick should be a bit faster than the side kick as you not rotating as far. Also, on the back kick, your foot should be vertical, striking with the the heel. On the side kick the foot is horizontal, striking with the blade edge, when you strike the target. This means that either kick works better in different situations and against different targets.

The two parts I've seen as hardest on the spinning back kick is a) getting height with the kick and b) keeping the kick vertical. It seems easy to over-rotate on the back kick, which pretty much turns the foot up and the hips over and it sorta becomes a spinning side kick anyway. which is not good if the sitation/target dictated that the back kick was the better kick. It's important to be looking over your lead/kicking side shoulder at the target as you kick, but this is what can cause you to over-rotate. One thing to do is to make sure you pull your shoulder up into your chin. This will keep your shoulders from opening up as you look, and thus keep you from over-rotating.

 

[ajs1976]

You should never execute any kick while looking away from your opponent. As you pivot, your head should be turning to see the kick over your shoulder.

Actually, I am being told to do exactly the opposite with this kick. My instuctor was actually holding my shoulder to keep me from turning and looking.

I can't argue with the results. If I don't look, i'm on target, but if I try to look I miss.

I think I need to do more work on both kicks, so I can keep them seperate and not mash them together like i have been doing.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I can't argue with the results. If I don't look, i'm on target, but if I try to look I miss.

Until the target moves. One defense against spinning kicks is to slide in offline on the opposite side of the kick. Nothing worse than throwing a kick, missing and having no idea where the opponent is. *Always* look at your target on *any* kick, especially when your back is turned.

Also, what is 'the target'?? The vertical foot of a spinning back kick can penetrate through/between the arms up in defense, if the placement is correct, but that's a small target and you would have to be *bvery* good to hit it, especially if the opponent has time to shift.

That's why I mentioned keeping our shoulder in to your chin as you look over your shoulder as that will keep you from flying open as your turn.

 

[Gemini]

Actually, I am being told to do exactly the opposite with this kick. My instuctor was actually holding my shoulder to keep me from turning and looking.

The only reason I can think that he would tell you that, is if he sees something that needs correcting and he's breaking it down for you. After you fix it, adding the "look" later. I'm sorry, there is NO WAY he's will leave you kicking like that. In no art are you taught to kick without looking.

Think of it this way. The back kick is one of the most powerful kicks you'll ever make. When done sucessfully, it has the power to break bones and disrupt organs. It's like a loaded weapon...shooting with a blindfold on. That makes no sense what-so-ever. Let's see what happens.

Freep. I don't think he's referring to a spin kick, but hey, you never know. If he's being taught to kick without looking...jeeesh. Scary.

 

[MikeMartial]

You should never execute any kick while looking away from your opponent. As you pivot, your head should be turning to see the kick over your shoulder.

That quote by Gemini is in bold, italics, and underlined for a reason. If your instructor is teaching you to look away while kicking, I'd seriously consider packing up your locker and moving to a new dojang.

 

[arnisador]

You have to be able to see your target. Perhaps your instructor's advice is a short-term thing, to work on a particular flaw in your technqiue as currently executed? How does he do the kick, say when sparring?

 

[ajs1976]

Perhaps your instructor's advice is a short-term thing, to work on a particular flaw in your technqiue as currently executed?

This is probably what is going on. He is a new instructor and is working on getting us to do things the way he wants us to. I will have to wait and see.

 

[Marginal]

I have an old issue of TKD Times somewhere that mentions the no look back kick as an innovative new technique. Right alongside the "statue of liberty" kick*.

In the no look back kick's description it said something to the effect of "look first, then kick really fast".





(*If anyone's wondering, SoL kick's an axe kick where you catch your leg on the way down with your hands...)

 

[MA-Caver]

So far I have learned two back kicks.

1. In fighting stance with the right leg back, spin on the balls of your feet so you are facing away from your opponent. Your right leg is now in front. Bring your right knee up. Bend at the waist and thrust your leg out behind you. The whole time you are lookin away from your oponent.

Personally I have a problem with "looking away from your opponent"... unless you are blindingly fast with that particular move, taking your eyes off your opponent is generally not the best of ideas. They could move quick enough to get out of your range or enough to reduce the impact.
Now if you meant looking away but still maintaining eye contact with your opponent's body (not necessarily with their own eyes) then yeah because you are still ensuring accuracy to your intended target (solar plexus, stomach, groin, what/where-ever!) . If your opponent moves while you are in the middle of execution (and still keeping them in sight) of the back kick then at least you can make the last second adjustments to score a hit. :idunno: maybe I'm missing something here? :asian:
But yes, I agree with Gemini that the most important thing is maintaining balance with such a move. Your center of gravity is way off kilter and one of your legs is hyper extended (at the fullest point of the kick/thrust). If you're grabbed you're screwed.
My use of this TKD move is to aim at the lower target areas of the body (groin, knees, shins and ankles) to better debilitate my opponent and put them off balance.

 

[ajs1976]

In the no look back kick's description it said something to the effect of "look first, then kick really fast".

That is the idea behind the first kick I mentioned.

 

[Brad Dunne]

There is only one back kick that starts with a spinning move and that's the turning/spinning back kick, which looks very much like a sidekick when final application is completed. The other kick being described is what is known as a mule kick, with the exception that the body is not turning. You are being grabed from behind and you take a slight step forward and shoot the leg straight back. As for the turning back kick, there are two ways to start it. First and this is the way many TKD folks do it, is to remain in the same position and turn quickley on the balls of your feet and get your shoulders and head around to see the target. The second way is to step on an angle before turning. This lines the leg up directly on the center of the attackers body. Just watched the WFC over the weekend and they had a guy that won with a turning back kick. He was lucky, because he was able to make contact without looking at the target. He caught the opponent right under his rightside chest area. If he was just a little bit off, he would have just glanced off the side of the chest and done no damage to his opponent and would have been in a very difficult position to defend himself.

The old saying........"You can't hit what you can't see"

 

[FearlessFreep]

First and this is the way many TKD folks do it, is to remain in the same position and turn quickley on the balls of your feet and get your shoulders and head around to see the target. The second way is to step on an angle before turning. This lines the leg up directly on the center of the attackers body.

I use both. The first doesn't telegraph as much but the second tends to line things up better and also the slight step agle in can pick p a couple of inches of distance to close within range if needed....Different ways of using the same kick based on the situation

In my mind I tend to break kicks down as a simple kick that is based mostly on angle of attack, and the foot movement, mostly in relationship to the hip and thigh

Roundhouse
Back kick
Side kick
Cresent kick
etc...

From there you can apply modifers to increase power, etc..

Front leg or back leg.
Hop to
Spin
Jump
etc...

So...a sidekick is a sidekick and a back kick is a back kick but both can be delivered from a spin, or a jump, or a jump spin, etc...

 

[terryl965]

Well first off no look back kick will get you hurt in the long run, why would anybody tell a student not to look at there opponet, second if you can't see them how do you expect to duck and move from there kick which if I knew you would not be watching then I would go start to your headwith a backswing or a heel rack. And the back kick you should alway turnyour head to see your opponet out of your eye, so you know where and when it can land makes no since to throw a kick if your opponet moves before you throw it.
Terry

 

[KingofSpades]

I would say that if u are sparing, use the second kick u where taught. The first one seems to be made for pratice until u have got it down pat. I understand u about the new instructer thing though. I went through one quite recently and everything was a little messed up.

 

[ajs1976]

I just returned to class after being out for a few months. First thing I found out was that my old instructor started teaching again a few weeks before and the new instructor that was teaching the no-look back kick is gone. The no-look back kick is also gone. :idunno:

So now, not only do I have to get back into training after being out a few months, I also have to unlearn some the changes that were made.

 

[IcemanSK]

I just returned to class after being out for a few months. First thing I found out was that my old instructor started teaching again a few weeks before and the new instructor that was teaching the no-look back kick is gone. The no-look back kick is also gone. :idunno:

So now, not only do I have to get back into training after being out a few months, I also have to unlearn some the changes that were made.

I'm glad to hear you'll need to unlearn that kick. I've always seen the "no-look" back kick as a bad habit....& dangerous to boot.

 

[matt.m]

That quote by Gemini is in bold, italics, and underlined for a reason. If your instructor is teaching you to look away while kicking, I'd seriously consider packing up your locker and moving to a new dojang.

I agree. Look I understand the difference between both kicks. However, if you don't look at your target then you won't generate all the power in the most optimal area (I.E. your target).

 

[Touch Of Death]

Perhaps the instructor was merely isolating the exercise from the eventual overall result.
Sean