Attach something moral to something evil, to make it seem good to many

[mastercole]

Moral codes to live by........................

Never look at the wives of friends.
Bars and drinking halls are off limits
Loyalty is unconditional
Honor appointments
Treat wives and family with love and respect
Answer truthfully
Another families assets must be protected
Disassociate with untrustworthy persons
Avoid anyone who behaves badly
Don’t be seen with those who do not hold to moral values

Cosa nostra codice di condotta

 

[mastercole]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When people lost sight of the way to live
Came codes of love and honesty,
Learning came, charity came,
Hypocrisy took charge;
When differences weakened family ties
Came benevolent fathers and dutiful sons;
And when lands were disrupted and misgoverned
Came ministers commended as loyal.

Tao Te Ching[/FONT]

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Moral codes to live by........................

Never look at the wives of friends.
Bars and drinking halls are off limits
Loyalty is unconditional
Honor appointments
Treat wives and family with love and respect
Answer truthfully
Another families assets must be protected
Disassociate with untrustworthy persons
Avoid anyone who behaves badly
Don’t be seen with those who do not hold to moral values

Cosa nostra codice di condotta

What "code of conduct" does this come from? I like and try to abide by them all, except for maybe #2.. . haha!

 

[Carol]

What "code of conduct" does this come from? I like and try to abide by them all, except for maybe #2.. . haha!

It is from La Cosa Nostra, better known as the Italian Mafia.

 

[StudentCarl]

Master Cole, thanks for posting these.

It made me think of something from a military ethics class decades ago:

The real measure of integrity is how you act when there are no witnesses or chance of discovery.

 

[Carol]

Good points to ponder for how holistic genuine integrity truly is.

 

[lifespantkd]

It is from La Cosa Nostra, better known as the Italian Mafia.

And, that is, of course, the point.

Any code of conduct has the potential to be grossly misused. Codes of conduct can be used to establish and maintain power, authority, and legitimacy by those with ulterior motives. They can be used as a form of indoctrination into obedience to a false authority. They can be used to silence those who recognize when the codes are being misused. And, so on. Of course, codes of conduct can also be moral guides which individuals hold dear and sincerely use to better themselves and the world. But, when the codes are grossly misused, at best, they become tainted by association and, at worst, they do great harm.

I "grew up" in Taekwondo on a code of conduct that was taught to me by my Sabumnim--someone whom I admire and respect greatly and someone who lives with integrity and compassion. For years, I held that code quite dear and used it to successfully face many challenges in my life. Yet, the more that I have studied the underlying philosophy of Taekwondo, the less I have felt called to consult that code for the guidance of my conduct. For me, Taoist and Buddhist philosophy (note that I do not say "religion") offer ways of being in the world which nurture growth more deeply than a code of conduct, in part, via their recognition of the dynamic, complex, and often paradoxical nature of life. It is very hard to put into words what I am trying to say. But, if you're interested in exploring these topics and your own personal growth more through Taekwondo, I recommend these books:

The Tao Te Ching
What the Buddha Taught
Buddhism Without Belief: A Contemporary Guide to Awakening

For the record, I do not believe that Eastern philosophy has the corner on routes to personal growth and the development of wisdom. I also do not believe that people who do not subscribe to an Eastern religion must convert to one in order to practice Taekwondo or cannot learn something valuable from Eastern philosophy. Great wisdom can be found from many sources across cultures and eras.

Cynthia

 

[miguksaram]

What "code of conduct" does this come from? I like and try to abide by them all, except for maybe #2.. . haha!

#2 is why I could never join the Cosa Nostra.

 

[puunui]

Moral codes to live by........................

Never look at the wives of friends.
Bars and drinking halls are off limits
Loyalty is unconditional
Honor appointments
Treat wives and family with love and respect
Answer truthfully
Another families assets must be protected
Disassociate with untrustworthy persons
Avoid anyone who behaves badly
Don’t be seen with those who do not hold to moral values

Cosa nostra codice di condotta

good rules.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

@ Cynthia, I totally agree with both of your points. Codes are only as good as how they are used.

As for the philosophy part.. .

I would add a third; Confucianism, particularly in KMA's. South Korea is, arguably, the most Confucian culture in the world. To best understand the moral culture of KMA's, IMO, it is rewarding to have a basic understanding of Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism (philosophically not religiously, as you made clear). These ideas are what the tenets are based upon.

Is this education going to make you a better striker? Of course not, but if you wish to connect with the culture that founded the art, it becomes very helpful. Look at the whole "Tiger Mom" backlash.. . I cannot remember the wording exactly, but there is a Confucian saying that goes something like this: "If I like you, I scold you. If I love you, I beat you." I'm think many of us here on MT may relate to this statement. Those martial artists whom their Korean seniors had the most respect for, were held to a higher and more strict standard. Those who do not understand this cultural approach may take this action as personally degrading, rather than seeing it as a sign of respect. This standard is also not only technical, but an attempt to help you realize your Moo Duk or Wu De; Martial Virtue. If any of you are not familiar with Moo Duk (Wu De in Chinese), take a quick read at this four part article: http://www.pathsatlanta.org/2009/08/07/cultivation-of-character-in-traditional-martial-arts/

I'm not saying it is the best or only way, but it does give us some insight into the methods and approaches to TKD training methods (atleast the older TKD traditions).

My KJN is, IMO, the poster child for the Confucian Patriarch. Something many westerners have no understanding of, and it makes understanding some of his decisions, reasons, and actions nearly impossible for them. I am not a scholarly expert in these three areas philosophy, but I do my best to educate myself. I have personally found it to be very beneficial.

 

[miguksaram]

Is this education going to make you a better striker? Of course not, but if you wish to connect with the culture that founded the art, it becomes very helpful. Look at the whole "Tiger Mom" backlash.. . I cannot remember the wording exactly, but there is a Confucian saying that goes something like this: "If I like you, I scold you. If I love you, I beat you." I'm think many of us here on MT may relate to this statement. Those martial artists whom their Korean seniors had the most respect for, were held to a higher and more strict standard. Those who do not understand this cultural approach may take this action as personally degrading, rather than seeing it as a sign of respect. This standard is also not only technical, but an attempt to help you realize your Moo Duk or Wu De; Martial Virtue. If any of you are not familiar with Moo Duk (Wu De in Chinese), take a quick read at this four part article: http://www.pathsatlanta.org/2009/08/07/cultivation-of-character-in-traditional-martial-arts/

I agree that a better understanding of both historical and contemporary culture of Korea, as well as a better understanding of actual Korean history (not KMA history) will help you better understand the art. As you mentioned it will not help your kicks and punches, but this type of learning goes beyond physical technique.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I agree that a better understanding of both historical and contemporary culture of Korea, as well as a better understanding of actual Korean history (not KMA history) will help you better understand the art. As you mentioned it will not help your kicks and punches, but this type of learning goes beyond physical technique.

Sir, I think you have an unfair advantage in this area, since your wife is Korean (if I remember correctly).

 

[lifespantkd]

@ Cynthia, I totally agree with both of your points. Codes are only as good as how they are used.

As for the philosophy part.. .

I would add a third; Confucianism, particularly in KMA's. South Korea is, arguably, the most Confucian culture in the world. To best understand the moral culture of KMA's, IMO, it is rewarding to have a basic understanding of Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism (philosophically not religiously, as you made clear).

I completely agree that understanding Confucianism is critical to understanding Taekwondo philosophy. I just do not find it as useful to my personal growth as I find Buddhist and Taoist philosophy to be. That's the only reason that I didn't mention it in this context.

Cynthia

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I completely agree that understanding Confucianism is critical to understanding Taekwondo philosophy. I just do not find it as useful to my personal growth as I find Buddhist and Taoist philosophy to be. That's the only reason that I didn't mention it in this context.

Cynthia

Oh, I understand now, I misunderstood personal growth to mean personal growth in martial arts. Yeah, with Taoist and Buddhist teachings being much more about personal-spiritual philosophy and Confucianism concentrating more so on socio-political structure, I agree the first two to be more influential than the latter on personal growth.

 

[mastercole]

What "code of conduct" does this come from? I like and try to abide by them all, except for maybe #2.. . haha!

A social club in my neighborhood (Little Italy) has these posted under a large photo of Frank Sinatra. The heading states "Proof that Frank is not a friend of ours." This is somewhat culturally complex to non-Italians.

What it means is that Frank did not completely follow any type Cosa Nostra Codice di Condotta - roughly a Mafia Code of Conduct, so he could never go deep into the mob and become one of them. It does not actually mean that Frank is not a friend, he is just not "a friend of ours." "Friend of ours" is intimate language between true Mafiosi that is generally an identifier that this person can be trusted, and has likely been formally inducted in to the mob.

It hangs in this -Italian Only- club as a statement that not all Italians, or Sicilians are in the mob (they don't all live up to these codes), just like the more famous Italians the media claims to have exposed, like Frank Sinatra for example.

Do mob guys hang out in bars, behave badly, associate with untrustworthy persons, ect., yes, all the time. But not the ones that are truly in deep. The more "moral" they become, according to the "Cosa Nostra Codice di Conndotta", the deeper they can go toward the center of the root of this evil. If they can strictly adhere to this code throughout their life, some of these types of mafiosi even carry this written code with them all the time, they can become one with this type of pure evil. The true mafiosi that go this deep, and live by this code are viewed in a sort of pious way by many of those around them. And that is pious in both the good and bad definition. Even after death they are still adored by many in the neighborhood, even having their picture displayed at special, and public events.

So, like Lao Tzu said in the Tao Te Ching, found in my second post, when we start with all this code stuff, not living right in the first place, it can trick you and others, dragging us deeper into hypocrisy

In my school, we do not post any dojang rules, nor do we recite any codes, creeds, etc. What we do is attempt to pass the value of the Taekwondo related philosophies on to our students by examples presented in the dojang.

 

[miguksaram]

Sir, I think you have an unfair advantage in this area, since your wife is Korean (if I remember correctly).

ha.ha.ha...Yes, and she is and it has been very helpful, not to mention doing business over in Korea for several years and visiting my in-laws. Emerging in culture and studying its history has helped a lot.

 

[mastercole]

Originally Posted by SahBumNimRush
Is this education going to make you a better striker? Of course not, but if you wish to connect with the culture that founded the art, it becomes very helpful. Look at the whole "Tiger Mom" backlash.. . I cannot remember the wording exactly, but there is a Confucian saying that goes something like this: "If I like you, I scold you. If I love you, I beat you." I'm think many of us here on MT may relate to this statement. Those martial artists whom their Korean seniors had the most respect for, were held to a higher and more strict standard. Those who do not understand this cultural approach may take this action as personally degrading, rather than seeing it as a sign of respect. This standard is also not only technical, but an attempt to help you realize your Moo Duk or Wu De; Martial Virtue. If any of you are not familiar with Moo Duk (Wu De in Chinese), take a quick read at this four part article: http://www.pathsatlanta.org/2009/08/...-martial-arts/

I agree that a better understanding of both historical and contemporary culture of Korea, as well as a better understanding of actual Korean history (not KMA history) will help you better understand the art. As you mentioned it will not help your kicks and punches, but this type of learning goes beyond physical technique.

I disagree with both of you. In a nice way

Learning the culture as deep as we can as a Westerner, will make us better strikers, and better at everything Taekwondo or KMA, technical and otherwise. Any idea why I make such a statement?

 

[mastercole]

For the record, I do not believe that Eastern philosophy has the corner on routes to personal growth and the development of wisdom. I also do not believe that people who do not subscribe to an Eastern religion must convert to one in order to practice Taekwondo or cannot learn something valuable from Eastern philosophy. Great wisdom can be found from many sources across cultures and eras.

Cynthia

Very true. Each culture has positive values. Looking at Buddhist, Confucius and Taoist thought brought me to a much deeper understanding of the Christian based cultures I live in. Even in the dojang, I will sometimes compare Christian values to what we say in Taekwondo, just as an example, not as religious teaching, I tell students that is up to there family.

 

[mastercole]

I completely agree that understanding Confucianism is critical to understanding Taekwondo philosophy. I just do not find it as useful to my personal growth as I find Buddhist and Taoist philosophy to be. That's the only reason that I didn't mention it in this context.
Cynthia

I think that Confucian thought is the thing that our Western (especially United States) mind set, experience and fabric has the hardest time in both understanding it, and making in roads to somewhat adopting it. I had a conversation with a very knowledgeable Taekwondoin last night. He commented that for us born and raised in the USA, he did not believe that we can really fully become a part of these cultures. A very few of us may make it in the doorway, and go a little deeper than most, but not all the way. Has it ever been done? Not by anyone that I know of.

So as American born and raised Taekwondoin, even if we can grasp some understanding without to many misconceptions, I feel it will that understanding, and even the misunderstandings will come out through our Christian based experience and understanding, which most all American borns have, whether we claim a faith of Christianity or not.

 

[lifespantkd]

Learning the culture as deep as we can as a Westerner, will make us better strikers, and better at everything Taekwondo or KMA, technical and otherwise. Any idea why I make such a statement?

My first thought was that, arguably, the greatest barrier to effective self-defense using the physical components of Taekwondo is the emotional state that inherently arises from our attachment to "I" when that "I" is threatened. Paradoxically, our strong attachment to what Buddhist philosophy would say is our false perception of a permanent self is the very thing that gets in the way of effective self-defense. Unifying our mind-body and becoming one with the situation including the attacker is what allows effective self-defense.

My second thought is that philosophy is inextricably intertwined with the smallest physical component of Taekwondo. How can the physical components by understood, much less enacted completely/correctly, if the philosophy is not understood?

Cynthia