Assisting Pedophiles & the Destruction of Childhood

[shesulsa]

Is that where it was?

Or was it here:
http://direct.tesco.com/q/N.1999226/Nr.99.aspx

You get to that page by clicking through the games and toys link, which page had the title "Children's toys and games." I would expect to find games, toys and 'exercise programs' to be found through a separate link from the one for children. Is that *really* too difficult to see or expect??

The article does state: " Tesco last night denied the pole dancing kit was sexually oriented and said it was clearly marked for "adult use"."

Yes, and what a fine example of speaking out of both sides of one's mouth.

So if I had to guess, and that is all anyone here is doing right now, I'd say it wasn't in with the fluffy stuffed animals, but more likely with other games aimed at an adult audience. Which includes poker sets (gambling), a desperate houswives game (which I am sure I've seen in stores with the board games for other ages), Sex and the City, beer, wine, other gambling, etc.

Is this okay in Canada? I mean I know other countries are more sexually free than we are in the states.

But I still stand by this: If it were a mistake, why didn't they say so?

 

[Kacey]

As a fitness aid for adults, I see no problem; if it is (or was) indeed being marketed to prepubescent children, then something needs to be changed... forcibly, if necessary.

 

[michaeledward]

How many of use visit 'Spencer's' in the local mall?

There is stuff in the back of that store, that I would never even pickup to take a closer look at. But it is all there for any teenager wandering through. Certain items do belong only at 'Amazing.Net' locations.

But, isn't that what the 'Marketplace of Ideas' is all about?

While I don't want to pidgeon hole any one on this board ... many of us have obvious political leanings. And now this thread is in the Study. It seems that many of the more Republican (Party of the Free Market) leaning folks are objecting to the idea of an 8'6" pole with a lacy garter. Isn't the right wing point of view - "Let the market decide"?

Who really cares if the Joneses down the street buy their 8 year old daughter a stripper pole for play time or exercise? Isn't that the small government - nonintrusive government wing of the right side of the political fence?

The market place of ideas has to be open to stupid ideas too, doesn't it?

One may need to question why the poster chose the title he did for the thread ... but, other than that .... I wouldn't buy the toy for a child. But, my kids don't have cell phones, black lights, or the sexy dice available in Spencers either.

 

[MA-Caver]

But I still stand by this: If it were a mistake, why didn't they say so?

Probably one of several reasons, take your pick...
1. Too stupid
2. Too embarassed
3. Too prideful
4. Too stubborn

I've seen that Pole Dancing game/kit in a Spencer's Gift (a real +18 store... little kids are run outta there all the time)... And it was appropriately placed in the "Adult Games" section.

The whole thing maybe a stupid mistake... a not-so-bright-stocker, assistant manager whomever! might've put the games on the shelves. Who knows...
Any parent worth their salt is going to NOT allow their kittens to become SEX kittens and getting this game for them.
Likewise no game manufacturer (for kids or adults) is going to risk getting shut-down/outta business by knowingly doing this. Marketers are smarter than that I would think.

I'm willing to say someone screwed up somehow-somewhere.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've got a few comments here that might be a little off topic of where the thread is going, but I think are relevant to the title of the thread.

We as a society are pushing messages about sexuality that I think are clearly hypocritical, if not downright schitzophrenic.

We have idolized youth to the extreme. Aging is unacceptable, and more and more people are doing whatever their pocketbook can afford to try and make themselves look younger and younger. And with TV shows like Extreme Makeover, it gets sanctioned by the media and by the public. People undergo all kinds of surgery designed to make them look prettier, which generally means younger. Youth hasn't simply been idolized, but a big part of it has also been sexualized. We have beauty pagants for very young children, in which they are heavily sexualized. Youth and sex go hand in hand. This attitude has permeated our society extensively.

So why is it that we are shocked when kids are harmed by pedophiles? After all, our society has pounded into everyone's head that youth is beauty, and youth is sexy, and youth is desireable. Is it any wonder that those who are attracted to youth in the extreme are going to act upon impulse and desire? These people are really only taking society's message and running with it. In a way, we as a society have told them that it's OK to do. But then we want to hold up the pedophiles as a pariah and act like it is something wrong with them. Really, we have created our own problems and our own monsters. In a subtle and sneaky way we have told them that this is OK, and now we see the results.

Sexuality and desire and arousal are a very interesting thing. Different people find different things arousing, and its a good thing because we don't all fit a single mold. If we did, many of us would never find a partner or a spouse to share our lives with. Some people are attracted to skinny people, others to heavy people, others to tall people with dredlocks, others to short people with long hair, or high boots, or high heels, or leather and lace, etc. What an individual is attracted to and aroused by is a very personal thing, and it cannot be reasoned in, nor reasoned out of a person. It just is what it is. Unfortunatley, some people are sexually attracted to children.

I read an article in a newspaper once, where an individual admitted to being attracted to children. However, he was fully aware of how damaging it would be if he ever acted upon that attraction, and he had never acted upon it so far. He deliberately lived his life in such a way to never be placed into a tempting circumstance, where he might harm a child. He was forced to acknowledge this side of himself, but was clear headed enough to understand how dangerous it would be, and strong enough to take steps to ensure it never caused harm to anyone.

Reaction to this article was rather strong. People called him a demon, claimed he was sick, and a terrible person, etc. I think just the opposite is true. Like I stated earlier, you can't simply change whatever gets you aroused. There is no button in your brain that you can simply turn off so that it doesn't happen. This person had not acted on his impulse. He was strong enough to recognize the danger, and took steps to prevent any trouble. You cannot attack someone for simply having thoughts that you disagree with. If he doesn't act upon those thoughts, he has done nothing wrong.

But given the messages that our society sends out, idolizing youth, sexualizing youth, is it really any wonder that some people who are attracted to children might act upon those impulses? While these people have truly done a terrible thing, I think we as a society really have to look at ourselves and recognize that we are Dr. Frankenstein, and we have created a monster.

 

[Andrew Green]

You get to that page by clicking through the games and toys link, which page had the title "Children's toys and games." I would expect to find games, toys and 'exercise programs' to be found through a separate link from the one for children. Is that *really* too difficult to see or expect??

So they should remove the "Children's" from the title line in your opinion? The links don't say that, just the title.

And it's not a excercise program by the sounds of things, it's a game. So, if I where looking for this, I guess I'd be in the minority. Because I'd look under "Games" in the "18+" section. Which I'd guess is where it was. Right between the gambling games, drinking games and Desperate Houswives / Sex in the City games.

But it is a game, a physical one yes, but so is "Twister" and it isn't in the excercise section.
Papers sell based on there stories. This story sold, and if you read it carefully it is vague and misleading. The game was meant for adults, manufactured with adults in mind, and the article was not at all specific on where it was found on the website.

I think we have a very clear case of turning nothing, or something fairly small into a big moral outrage story to be honest. Twist things a little, leave things vague so that people can fill in the blanks themselves and *poof* your story is getting a reaction and being passed around the office.

 

[Kacey]

I've got a few comments here that might be a little off topic of where the thread is going, but I think are relevant to the title of the thread.

This is, indeed, slightly off topic - but also well thought out and well stated. As a middle school teacher, I see way too many kids trying to fit the model you give - and those who are clinging to childhood are derided by those who aren't. I could see many of the kids I teach (and they are kids, no matter they think) buying this item and using it to learn to pole dance, so they can get a job doing just that in high school, and the trend in general disturbs and disgusts me.

 

[crushing]

How many of use visit 'Spencer's' in the local mall?

There is stuff in the back of that store, that I would never even pickup to take a closer look at. But it is all there for any teenager wandering through. Certain items do belong only at 'Amazing.Net' locations.

But, isn't that what the 'Marketplace of Ideas' is all about?

While I don't want to pidgeon hole any one on this board ... many of us have obvious political leanings. And now this thread is in the Study. It seems that many of the more Republican (Party of the Free Market) leaning folks are objecting to the idea of an 8'6" pole with a lacy garter. Isn't the right wing point of view - "Let the market decide"?

Who really cares if the Joneses down the street buy their 8 year old daughter a stripper pole for play time or exercise? Isn't that the small government - nonintrusive government wing of the right side of the political fence?

The market place of ideas has to be open to stupid ideas too, doesn't it?

One may need to question why the poster chose the title he did for the thread ... but, other than that .... I wouldn't buy the toy for a child. But, my kids don't have cell phones, black lights, or the sexy dice available in Spencers either.

I'm not sure if you meant conservative instead of Republican as a 'political leaning', because they aren't synonymous, especially the Republicans of today, but that's another thread.

I don't see anyone here, regardless of 'political leaning', objecting to the pole dancing kit itself like you say. The objections seem to be the apparent marketing of such devices to young children.

I think Andrew Green may be on to something with the media sensationalism possibility. Maybe NBC will ignite some model rocket engines strapped on to the stripper poles to demonstrate how dangerous they can be?

 

[Andrew Green]

This is, indeed, slightly off topic - but also well thought out and well stated. As a middle school teacher, I see way too many kids trying to fit the model you give - and those who are clinging to childhood are derided by those who aren't. I could see many of the kids I teach (and they are kids, no matter they think) buying this item and using it to learn to pole dance, so they can get a job doing just that in high school, and the trend in general disturbs and disgusts me.

Ah, but now we are going to the problem, and not stomping feet and pointing fingers at who is to blame everytime a symptom comes up

 

[shesulsa]

The Spencer's stores here have an employee who hangs around where the "everyone" section and the "adult" section transition and who chases away the underage crown trying to get a peek at the adult stuff.

It bothers me that we should be so ... something ... to not care that adult-based games (yes, all of them) are mixed with the kids games. I don't like it in stores (no, I don't shop Spencers), I don't like it in catalogs, I don't like it on the web and the fact that it doesn't bother people bothers me.

It's different from putting condoms in the tampax aisle at the store, it's different than appropriate, healthful sexual education, it's marketing sex to young people and it's just ... plain ... wrong.

 

[Xue Sheng]

But given the messages that our society sends out, idolizing youth, sexualizing youth, is it really any wonder that some people who are attracted to children might act upon those impulses? While these people have truly done a terrible thing, I think we as a society really have to look at ourselves and recognize that we are Dr. Frankenstein, and we have created a monster.

This is off post, but you took it here so…

If one is a pedophile it matters not if the child is made up to look like an adult or if society idolizing and sexualizing youth, they are still attracted to children. It does not matter what a child dresses like if you are a pedophile you are already predisposed to being sexually attracted to children.

Believe it or not I once had a Catholic priest tell me something similar, that it was the childs fault that priests were attracted to children because they all dressed so much like adults today and wearing so much make up. I responded to that too, but I admit I did rant a whole lot more. And it is a good thing I am not catholic because I probably would have been excommunicated if I were.

However I do see your point and I think this has gone WAY too far. I have seen shirts for todlers with sexy on it, my wife was looking through a sales bin one day for shirts for our child and pulled out one to ask me what this meant on the front (my wife is from China) and when I told her she could not believe that someone would put that on a childs shirt. This to me is just plain wrong and we no longer shop there. By the way it couldn't be sold in China and the company would probably get in big trouble for doing it.

As for the man who new he was a pedophile and fought the urges, I applaud his efforts, but I still wouldn't want my child anywhere near him.

 

[Andrew Green]

So where should they put them?

If the 4 adult aimed games are not to be grouped with the games aimed at every other age group then where do they go?

Are violent games and gambling games different? Is it just games with sexual content that should be moved?

What bothers me is the blame game. Someone else is always responsible for corrupting the youth. Stores are there to sell products that people want, make them easy to find, and make money. That's what they do.

The logical place for a game would seem to be the games section would it not? And if they created a adult section I'd guess there would be outrage over that too. No win situation really.

And should sex be so taboo that stores can't sell things that are sex related?

And how is this different then selling condoms? Because it promotes sex as something fun rather then medical?

 

[Xue Sheng]

And should sex be so taboo that stores can't sell things that are sex related?

And how is this different then selling condoms? Because it promotes sex as something fun rather then medical?

You can't sell the stuff in most stores without getting into big trouble in Beijing and how many millions of people live there? Obviously sex is not taboo there it is just all thought of as for adults only. Therefore any place children are sex related stuff isn't.

They have banned certain American cartoons because they feel they are not good for Children, the Simpsons is one of those.

Actually in the world today they tend to sell condoms in many places to promote safe sex therefore it is medical. Even though it is aimed at those that participate in recreational sex it is an effort to stop STDs.

 

[Carol]

Tesco condemned for selling pole dancing toy

by COLIN FERNANDEZ Last updated at 23:13pm on 24th October 2006 Reader comments (51)



Hmmm...the website says that Tesco was "forced" to make the change...the kit includes play money...

Same company that brought us the Baby Bratz dolls...

Looks like Tescon intended it to be a toy to me.

 

[Flying Crane]

quote=Xue Sheng

If one is a pedophile it matters not if the child is made up to look like an adult or if society idolizing and sexualizing youth, they are still attracted to children. It does not matter what a child dresses like if you are a pedophile you are already predisposed to being sexually attracted to children.

Of course. Like I stated, whatever you are attracted to, nobody can really do anything to change it. It can't be reasoned in or out, and it can't be beat in or out. It just is what it is, whether the rest of us find it appropriate or not.

Believe it or not I once had a Catholic priest tell me something similar, that it was the childs fault that priests were attracted to children because they all dressed so much like adults today and wearing so much make up. I responded to that too, but I admit I did rant a whole lot more. And it is a good thing I am not catholic because I probably would have been excommunicated if I were.

I never ever suggested it was the child's fault. If anything, it would be the fault of adults who perpetuate the image of youth and sexuality. Parents who enter their 8 or 10 year old daughters in Beauty Pagants and dress them up like prom dates or young brides, or hookers, and teach them to walk and prance and tease the audience on stage might share some of the blame. Really, I'm not trying to pinpoint blame on any individual, but rather suggesting we step back and take a look at the bigger picture and see what might be some of the contributors to these problems.

As for the man who new he was a pedophile and fought the urges, I applaud his efforts, but I still wouldn't want my child anywhere near him.[/quote]

In his case, you would never even know it was him, I suspect. We are probably surrounded by people every day who have thoughts that, if we knew them, we might find repulsive or at least inappropriate. Some other people might find our own thoughts repulsive or inappropriate if they knew them as well. But regardless of the thoughts we all might harbor from time to time, most of us are able to resist acting upon them, probably because they aren't strong enough compulsions, and/or we recognize the harm they would cause and we know right from wrong.

 

[MA-Caver]

As for the man who new he was a pedophile and fought the urges, I applaud his efforts, but I still wouldn't want my child anywhere near him.

In his case, you would never even know it was him, I suspect. We are probably surrounded by people every day who have thoughts that, if we knew them, we might find repulsive or at least inappropriate. Some other people might find our own thoughts repulsive or inappropriate if they knew them as well. But regardless of the thoughts we all might harbor from time to time, most of us are able to resist acting upon them, probably because they aren't strong enough compulsions, and/or we recognize the harm they would cause and we know right from wrong.

HA! More likely people don't act upon them because they knew how much trouble they'd get into if they did. Thus they're more aware and afraid of the consenquences than they are of their own inner-most desires/complusions. The sex-offenders I had worked with (at first) didn't realize or care about the harm their compulsions would've caused they were more interested in their own self-gratification. Later (thankfully) they were made to understand the harm they caused and made to empathize the hurt they caused. Most of them I assume got "rehabilitated" because they knew they'd go to prison for a very long time if they re-offended.
Sometimes it takes years for a person's "inner-most" desires to manifest themselves. That "braving the fire" enough to stick your hand in to get what you want... that can take a while to build up with some people. Thus we become shocked when the neighbor next door is arrested for pedophilia.

But to the topic, teaching children ... make that, teaching impressionable children is a dual edged sword. We as a society have a responsiblity to ensure that the children of today are going to be the adults we want them (and us) to be tomorrow. Sending mixed messages like that by putting adult oriented toys next to children's toys isn't going to help. A child can only go by what they're taught is right or wrong by the adults around them.
Society here in America says that it's wrong for a child to act in a sexual manner (with each other or with an adult). Society in Thailand says it's okay.
Parents bear the ultimate responsibility of making sure their children know what is right and what is wrong. Society is usually the one who makes that determination for the Parents.

 

[Andrew Green]

Same company that brought us the Baby Bratz dolls...

Looks like Tescon intended it to be a toy to me.

Bratz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratz

Made by MGA entertainment, a company that makes toys for children.

This game was made by a company called "Peekaboo Pole Dancing Ltd." ( peekaboo.co.uk ) that makes.... Adult games!

Not sure where you got that it was the same company...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Bratz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratz

Made by MGA entertainment, a company that makes toys for children.

This game was made by a company called "Peekaboo Pole Dancing Ltd." ( peekaboo.co.uk ) that makes.... Adult games!

Not sure where you got that it was the same company...

OK not the same company but why not respond to all of Carol's post

Hmmm...the website says that Tesco was "forced" to make the change...the kit includes play money...

The issue of Tesco being forced to make the change. So was it originally sold on the more children related site or not?

And why issue play money with the game?

Regardless of where it was sold, who sold it or what its intent was it apparently WAS accessible to Children. So why, if they truly meant to sell this for adults put it somewhere where children could easily get to it?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I never ever suggested it was the child's fault. If anything, it would be the fault of adults who perpetuate the image of youth and sexuality. Parents who enter their 8 or 10 year old daughters in Beauty Pagants and dress them up like prom dates or young brides, or hookers, and teach them to walk and prance and tease the audience on stage might share some of the blame. Really, I'm not trying to pinpoint blame on any individual, but rather suggesting we step back and take a look at the bigger picture and see what might be some of the contributors to these problems.

I agree that society has an awful lot to do with it and I am not at all happy about it.

Now you’re not going to excommunicate me are you

In his case, you would never even know it was him, I suspect. We are probably surrounded by people every day who have thoughts that, if we knew them, we might find repulsive or at least inappropriate. Some other people might find our own thoughts repulsive or inappropriate if they knew them as well. But regardless of the thoughts we all might harbor from time to time, most of us are able to resist acting upon them, probably because they aren't strong enough compulsions, and/or we recognize the harm they would cause and we know right from wrong.

Probably true.

And in the case of the self restrained pedophile it is both revulsion and abject terror as the reason I would not want any child near him.

 

[Andrew Green]

The issue of Tesco being forced to make the change. So was it originally sold on the more children related site or not?

Who knows? It says it was labeled as 18+ and doesn't go much more specific.

And why issue play money with the game?

Well... because it is a game... Adults are known to play monopoly and it uses play money, as to countless other games. Which is why this would be a game, meant for multiple players, and not a excercise program...

Regardless of where it was sold, who sold it or what its intent was it apparently WAS accessible to Children. So why, if they truly meant to sell this for adults put it somewhere where children could easily get to it?

Like R rated movies in a video store? Or gangsta rap in the music store? Or Adult video games in the video game department? or sexy underwear in the clothing section?