Another Decriminalise Drugs Thread

[Sukerkin]

I know we've been around this track (no pun intended for a change) a few times but I have to say I agree with this fellow on the matter of the bad consequences of keeping recreational drugs illegal:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24320717

 

[ballen0351]

So when drugs are legal what will all these gangs move to so they can earn income? If they can't sell drugs they are not just going to say oh well guess I'll go work flipping burgers. They will look for the next easy money outlet which could become violence like robbery and burglary.
In a way would you rather drug dealer stay in certain areas of the city dealing with certain types of people and for the most part regular people are left unaffected by what's going on OR would you rather them stop selling drugs and look for another criminal enterprise ?

 

[arnisador]

There's something to consider there, yeah, but it can't be a reason for keeping drugs like MJ illegal.

 

[ballen0351]

There's something to consider there, yeah, but it can't be a reason for keeping drugs like MJ illegal.

I dont think the article was picking one drug over the other it was speaking of drugs as a whole

 

[ballen0351]

Kinda what I was saying:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23331602

"Criminals will not stop their crimes, change course and become honest tax-paying citizens if drugs were legalised. International drug control is working; fewer than 6% of people globally use drugs regularly and legalisation is not the answer."

 

[Sukerkin]

That thought did occur to me too, aye. But I counterbalance that with the statistic that is generally touted that ninety percent of the crime in this country is drug related and carried out by ten percent of the criminal population.

I think maybe not only are we looking at this through eyes that were born in different countries but also by eyes that are influenced by our different professions. I know that you have to directly deal with the consequences of the drug trade in your line of work and I would not dream of gainsaying your experience. It is just that equally the fellow putting this forwards is a rather senior police officer in his own right, just one in Britain where, altho' the trade is rife, the sheer volume of drug related deaths through violence to each other is lesser. The drug related crime here is more theft and burglary by addicts to fund the habit.

So if by making it non-criminal and making access easier but controlled for addicts, the crime they commit will lessen and that will outweigh the increase in crime from former drug traffickers seeking to maintain their income, for there are a lot fewer dealers than there are users.

 

[ballen0351]

That thought did occur to me too, aye. But I counterbalance that with the statistic that is generally touted that ninety percent of the crime in this country is drug related and carried out by ten percent of the criminal population.

I think maybe not only are we looking at this through eyes that were born in different countries but also by eyes that are influenced by our different professions. I know that you have to directly deal with the consequences of the drug trade in your line of work and I would not dream of gainsaying your experience. It is just that equally the fellow putting this forwards is a rather senior police officer in his own right, just one in Britain where, altho' the trade is rife, the sheer volume of drug related deaths through violence to each other is lesser. The drug related crime here is more theft and burglary by addicts to fund the habit.

So if by making it non-criminal and making access easier but controlled for addicts, the crime they commit will lessen and that will outweigh the increase in crime from former drug traffickers seeking to maintain their income, for there are a lot fewer dealers than there are users.

problem is addicts that currently commit crimes to afford drugs will still need to commit crimes to buy their drugs only now the cash goes to a Pfizer pharmaceuticals instead or the dude on the corner. So that end of drug related crime wont change. At least I dont see why it would if I need to steal your TV today to buy some crack, why would making it legal, regulated, taxed cause me to no longer need to steal your TV? The only reduction in crime rates would be for drug crime itself like possession or dealing drugs. All the related crime will remain. Only now we added the gang element looking for a new source of income to make up for the loss of drug funds

 

[arnisador]

What did the Mafia do when gambling started to become legal in many places? What did bootleggers do post-Prohibition?

 

[ballen0351]

What did the Mafia do when gambling started to become legal in many places?

Stay in places where its still illegal, Run illegal Gaming operations in places where it was legal, murder, extortion, and drug running to name a few

What did bootleggers do post-Prohibition?

Move on to other crimes like bank robbery, train robbery, Nascar( I honestly have no idea bootlegging was well before my time)

 

[Makalakumu]

So when drugs are legal what will all these gangs move to so they can earn income? If they can't sell drugs they are not just going to say oh well guess I'll go work flipping burgers. They will look for the next easy money outlet which could become violence like robbery and burglary.
In a way would you rather drug dealer stay in certain areas of the city dealing with certain types of people and for the most part regular people are left unaffected by what's going on OR would you rather them stop selling drugs and look for another criminal enterprise ?

Legalize drugs, gambling, prostitution....pretty much all vice. And when the bad guys switch to violence, legalize self defense and firearms. That will end that right quick.

 

[ballen0351]

Legalize drugs, gambling, prostitution....pretty much all vice. And when the bad guys switch to violence, legalize self defense and firearms. That will end that right quick.

we had that once it was called the wild west

 

[arnisador]

we had that once it was called the wild west

...which was a polite society because it was an armed society. Oh wait, no, you seem to be going a different way on that now...

 

[ballen0351]

...which was a polite society because it was an armed society. Oh wait, no, you seem to be going a different way on that now...

huh? you lost me

 

[arnisador]

Your reference to the Wild West did not seem very approving.

 

[ballen0351]

Your reference to the Wild West did not seem very approving.

Approving? I wasn't there how can I approve or not? Just said we had that type of society before

 

[Steve]

problem is addicts that currently commit crimes to afford drugs will still need to commit crimes to buy their drugs only now the cash goes to a Pfizer pharmaceuticals instead or the dude on the corner. So that end of drug related crime wont change. At least I dont see why it would if I need to steal your TV today to buy some crack, why would making it legal, regulated, taxed cause me to no longer need to steal your TV? The only reduction in crime rates would be for drug crime itself like possession or dealing drugs. All the related crime will remain. Only now we added the gang element looking for a new source of income to make up for the loss of drug funds

The idea that forcing gangs to look for other sources of income is a bad thing is pretty backwards.

 

[ballen0351]

The idea that forcing gangs to look for other sources of income is a bad thing is pretty backwards.

Unless that new form of income becomes violent robberies and home invasions. If you think they will just throw up their hands and go legit your fooling yourself

 

[Steve]

Honestly, I don't have the energy for this one again. I've not heard one rational argument in favor of the prohibition. It's all circular logic. drugs are bad because gangs deal drugs and gangs deal drugs because they're illegal, and they're illegal because they're bad, and they're bad because gangs deal them, and gangs deal them because they're illegal. Blah, blah, blah...

And then there's the other striking resemblances to the pro-gun arguments. Isn't theft already illegal? If a drug addict is stealing, that's already against the law. Obviously, more laws is doing no good.

Isn't anyone getting tired of this merry go round?

 

[ballen0351]

Isn't anyone getting tired of this merry go round?

you do know this forum is voluntary right?

 

[Steve]

Unless that new form of income becomes violent robberies and home invasions. If you think they will just throw up their hands and go legit your fooling yourself

What a cop out (no pun iintended). Is home invasion and violent robbery illegal? As a cop, can you arrest them? Aren't gangs ALREADY killing people? I don't know about you, but I think that gangs are already committing violent crimes. As a cop, surely you've seen some in your time. Come on, ballen. This is an idiotic rationale. The idea that we keep drugs illegal so gangs won't do WORSE crimes than deal drugs and kill people over them... give me a break.