The question is not what each person's idea of a black belt is what it means within the art and within the organization. The ATA promotes Songahm taekwondo. What does a black belt mean in that style?
Songahm taekwondo uses belts for competition bracketing, along with age, gender, and weight.
Well it's like I said, yes, according to the requirements of that organization, yes, my black belt would've been legitimate. But everyone has their own idea of what the general concept of "black belt" should reflect. Your concept seems to be . . . whatever the organization says it is. But there are clearly posters on here who feel that, regardless of style, regardless of organization, there are essential qualities which should be present when thinking of "a black belt."
So you do not think her belt was legitimate or you do? Your answer is not clear.
You asked if I thought it was "not legitimate." I said don't think so at all, that is I do not think it is "not legitimate," meaning that I think it IS legitimate.
As for the self defense element, the whole belt system was introduced for a combination of teachers aid and competition bracketing and the ranking system was specifically for competition bracketing. Also, the kyu/dan system was lifted from Go, a Japanese game that is similar to Reversi or Chinese checkers. If self defense was what it was to correspond to, methinks Kano would have picked something else.
Funakoshi, as I understand, introduced the kyu/dan system in order to help get Shotokan into the school system. Doesn't exactly scream self defense.
Regardless of their intention, it's an inescapable fact that those guys are gone. Yes, their systems are still being taught, but those systems have continued to evolve, and I would argue that ideas about the belt system have as well.
Well, here is how proficient a five year old can be:
So after watching those videos, how can you say that a five year old would be incapable of "doing the motions proficiently?" And the kids in those videos clearly know how to practice. Particularly the last one.
I like that you posted 3 gymnastics videos and a dance vid to prove your point about martial arts. That notwithstanding, those kids are impressive. I'll grant you that the kids in the last vid are freaks of nature. But I can at least say that all the 5 year olds I've personally seen performing patterns do so with a certain herky jerky, almost robot like kind of movement that denies them an ability to perform the task with what I would call "acceptable technique."
Now, I think that these kids are older than five, but they don't look any older than ten.
I would say they're around 12, and they are right about the age that I would say it's acceptable for them to earn a black belt because they have the physical and mental maturity to do so.
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