An interesting realistic read about M.A.

[JP3]

I can agree with the premise that a majority of martial artists can't "fight," if you are considering a fight as being something that looks like an MMA match. Well, fight well would probably be a better statement.

I also agree that the majority of martial artists are really not training to fight. LEO and military training is and should be more brutal in the training method so as to build survivability in those societal roles.... but it's hard to keep a school open with that level of training with your regular, vanilla civilian. Sure, there are hard cases out there that can take it with a smile, but most folks are just plain folks who aren't interested.

 

[drop bear]

Not that they can't fight. Don't really even understand how fighting even really works.

They have this Disney version.

I would have thought how fighting works would interest martial artists.

 

[JP3]

Not that they can't fight. Don't really even understand how fighting even really works.

They have this Disney version.

I would have thought how fighting works would interest martial artists.

I would, too. However, your & my image of what should probably be of interest to "martial artists" is apparently different than at least 3 out of 4 of them on the planet.

It just means that the minority can, if needed to do so, wipe the floor with them.

Maybe some of the bad guys are going to a new-named Cobra Kai school and they think that fighting is like sparring in class, and they are going to take their newly learned skillset, including the fantastic new tornado kick they saw that guy do on youtube and use it to mug me. We're weird, Drop. Just admit it.

 

[Danny T]

In my many years of experience most persons I have encountered in the martial arts aren't in it for fighting. Many like the idea of learning something about fighting or the idea of physically being able to defend themselves however, the idea most have is nothing near the reality.
As an instructor my job is to find out what the student is looking for and if I want to keep him/her as a student do what is necessary to meet their expectations.
People come to the martial arts for many different reasons, goals, and expectations. For some it is to fight.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would, too. However, your & my image of what should probably be of interest to "martial artists" is apparently different than at least 3 out of 4 of them on the planet.

It just means that the minority can, if needed to do so, wipe the floor with them.

Maybe some of the bad guys are going to a new-named Cobra Kai school and they think that fighting is like sparring in class, and they are going to take their newly learned skillset, including the fantastic new tornado kick they saw that guy do on youtube and use it to mug me. We're weird, Drop. Just admit it.

You are welcome to drop by my dojo anytime. Since you can wipe the floor with me, you should enjoy your visit.

 

[JP3]

You are welcome to drop by my dojo anytime. Since you can wipe the floor with me, you should enjoy your visit.

Since when did you start going to a Cobra Kai clone school, Bill? Last I knew, Isshin Ryu was very street-savvy and didn't have tornado kicks as part of the style.

Ah, I get it. You're ruffled because I was agreeing with Drop when I wrote, "However, your & my image of what should probably be of interest to "martial artists" is apparently different than at least 3 out of 4 of them on the planet. It just means that the minority can, if needed to do so, wipe the floor with them." I would say that you are in said minority. All one needs to do is read one of your posts on the solo work on stance, hand strikes combined with posture and body alignment to know that. Further, I have had the opportunity to work with a local Isshin Ryu school on a couple of occasions and I find them to know what a fight ends up being like, i.e. ugly.

So, let me ask you this, since I rubbed you the wrong way... Do you think that the average McDojo has any intention of truly learning to fight, as in dirty street fight, truly effectively. I would offer that the answer is probably not, but that they either are not interested, or actually do think that they do know what it is going to be like. Then consider how many McDojos are out there, with probably not so good teachers. You yourself were trying to get recommendations for a good school recently. If all of them were good, effective, and skilled at passing along knowledge, could you not simply use a phone book?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

My belief is that people train for many different reasons. But as far as self-defense goes, a solid upper body block punch is far more effective than no training at all. McDojos can, I believe, handle that much. Doesn't make them great fighters; they don't typically have to be.

 

[JP3]

My belief is that people train for many different reasons. But as far as self-defense goes, a solid upper body block punch is far more effective than no training at all. McDojos can, I believe, handle that much. Doesn't make them great fighters; they don't typically have to be.

Agreed. The above also does not take into account the large percentage of martial artists who really have no real interest in learning to fight, at all. Not in a real sense.

I've a friend who is now... I think godan in Iaido. Is she a martial artist? Absolutely. Is she hella-effective witht hat sword, which has a live edge. Indeed. But, can she carry her live blade around with her unless she is on the way to/from a training experience? Not in Texas, anyway. So, she's not training to fight, nor does she care to do so.

To your point about a solid upper body block punch. I would like to think that a McDojo can handle that, sure. Would I want to watch and make certain - especially if one of my own was going to train there? Definitely. People do train for many varied reasons, nearly all of them valid and beneficial. My godan friend is an example. The oldsters in the local park going through Tai Chi practice in the morning, another. The college judo team, another. It's all good. My thought of concern is for those who "train, and "think" they can really do something they can't, and are building in a false belief system.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not that they can't fight. Don't really even understand how fighting even really works.

They have this Disney version.

I would have thought how fighting works would interest martial artists.

This is where I'm at. For me it is almost like a study on how fighting works.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You are welcome to drop by my dojo anytime. Since you can wipe the floor with me, you should enjoy your visit.

Lol when old people say stuff like that it makes me not want to spar with them.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Lol when old people say stuff like that it makes me not want to spar with them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Pretty much. Young guys like to bark. Old guys keep that weird calm and are always trying lure someone into a false sense of security in regards to fighting skills. I don't like mystery bags. Lol

 

[JP3]

Lol when old people say stuff like that it makes me not want to spar with them.

Bingo. My first aikido instructor as an adult had an email signature he'd use for a while. "Old age & treachery always overcome youth & skill."

Don't fight with old guys. Old guys don't fight, they just kill you. That's something my dad, who was 101st Airborne told me that his Master Sergeant was fond of saying. That's true too.

 

[JP3]

Bingo. My first aikido instructor as an adult had an email signature he'd use for a while. "Old age & treachery always overcome youth & skill."

Don't fight with old guys. Old guys don't fight, they just kill you. That's something my dad, who was 101st Airborne told me that his Master Sergeant was fond of saying. That's true too.

OK, I've got to ask. TSDTexan, what's not to like about the above post?

 

[Hanzou]

An interesting read, although not really anything new. MMA and UFC fighters/extremists have been saying all that stuff for years. That said, my stance on it is that if you are purely training for "real world combat", unless you are in a profession that exposes you to violence on a regular basis (i.e. police or military) then you shouldn't be getting into lots of fights. You could go through your whole life and have maybe 1-2 real fights. So you are training for years and years and years, putting tons of times and money into it for an event that may never happen. What a waste of time! To me, Martial Arts is about more than just fighting, and the actual fighting part is a very small portion of it all. I pity people who obsess about their "fighting prowess" and worry over how well they will do in a "real fight".

Well I work in a profession that exposes me to violence (high school teacher in the inner city). I've had to use Bjj a few times to defend myself, and subdue a would-be attacker without seriously hurting them. Frankly without Bjj, I'd probably be dead or severely handicapped. Fortunately I took up a style that teaches you how to actually fight, instead of taking up a style that spends an inordinate amount of time teaching lofty philosophy and rhetorical Asian nonsense.

I took up Bjj initially to learn how to fight, and to get myself in shape to be capable of fighting. Bjj has taught me that, and pushed me to live a fairly healthy lifestyle. When my children (especially my daughters) come of age, I will push them to learn Bjj as well. They truly shouldn't waste their time learning BS that isn't going to teach them how to properly fight back if someone is accosting them.

 

[drop bear]

I think the unlikely I am ever going to use martial arts is a bit of a cop out.

I own a personal locator beacon. Which is a bloody expensive piece of kit that sends an emergency signal so if I get lost, someone can come find me.

Really good for the motorbike trips.

Now I am very unlikley to ever need it. But I still expect the thing to work if I did.

I am just not sure how that could ever be a reason for a faulty product.

 

[jobo]

I think the unlikely I am ever going to use martial arts is a bit of a cop out.

I own a personal locator beacon. Which is a bloody expensive piece of kit that sends an emergency signal so if I get lost, someone can come find me.

Really good for the motorbike trips.

Now I am very unlikley to ever need it. But I still expect the thing to work if I did.

I am just not sure how that could ever be a reason for a faulty product.

I dont think. That's a fair comparison. Though I think learning to not get lost is a better idea. MARTIAL are only as effective as the martial artist is committed/ talented . If they don't work the fault is largely with the individual . It would be like taking golf lessons and then complaining you cant win the open

 

[Hanzou]

I dont think. That's a fair comparison. Though I think learning to not get lost is a better idea. MARTIAL are only as effective as the martial artist is committed/ talented . If they don't work the fault is largely with the individual . It would be like taking golf lessons and then complaining you cant win the open

That's assuming your golf instructor knows how to play golf. He could be a charlatan or lacking in good golfing skills. If that's the case, you could have all the intention in the world to be good at golf, but you'll never be good at it.

I've been to some pretty shady MA schools in my time. Those types of places are teaching pure nonsense for a buck and an ego boost.

 

[Balrog]

Martial arts and the cycle of ******** - Charlie's Diary

Martial arts and the cycle of ********
By Tricia Sullivan
Hello, everyone. Charlie has kindly invited me to post here because I am a science fiction writer. But for the next four guest posts I'm going to be talking about fighting, martial arts, the media, and women. I have a lot to say. In this first post I'll give you an idea of where I'm coming from when I'm talking about fighting.
(Edited to comply with copyright policy; as always, follow links to original article at your own risk -- jks9199, Administrator)​

Somewhat interesting, but in the long run, we've been kicking this basic concept around the forum, off and on, ever since I joined it (and probably long before).

 

[jobo]

That's assuming your golf instructor knows how to play golf. He could be a charlatan or lacking in good golfing skills. If that's the case, you could have all the intention in the world to be good at golf, but you'll never be good at it.

I've been to some pretty shady MA schools in my time. Those types of places are teaching pure nonsense for a buck and an ego boost.

its hard to see how it can go wrong, you learn to punch and kick and block/ move, if your talented that all you need, if your not, it doesn't matter who your teacher is, you will be lucky to reach fairly poor