Am I using a dolyo chagi chamber for a yeop chagi here? (VIDEO)=

[Acronym]

Pretty sure you have your degrees mixed up.

For WT/KKW TaeKwondo:

2 Turn the leg which is on the ground for about 170-180 degrees. Make sure to turn your waist as well to create a rotational torque. Also, make sure that your kicking leg should be parallel to the ground.

Dollyo Chagi Of Taekwondo -The Most Popular Kick For Knockouts | One Of The 4 Basic Taekwondo Kicks

 

[Acronym]

I said 180 degrees for KKW

 

[dvcochran]

For WT/KKW TaeKwondo:

2 Turn the leg which is on the ground for about 170-180 degrees. Make sure to turn your waist as well to create a rotational torque. Also, make sure that your kicking leg should be parallel to the ground.

Dollyo Chagi Of Taekwondo -The Most Popular Kick For Knockouts | One Of The 4 Basic Taekwondo Kicks

I mean from the angle of your foot in the videos. A good bit past 45°. Makes the leg return much harder.

And that is a very generalized angle that is more correct for yeop chagi, not dollyo chagi.

 

[dvcochran]

@Acronym, see if this helps. You will see there is no hard reference to degree of rotation. There are tons of WT/Kukkiwon books that will give all sorts of different information. None of them are necessarily wrong, which can add to the confusion.
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/front/pageView.action?cmd=/eng/information/taekwondoSkill2

 

[Acronym]

I mean from the angle of your foot in the videos. A good bit past 45°. Makes the leg return much harder.i.

Yeah... I wrote that it's past 45 degrees, but it's not 180 degrees either. A lot of ITF guys go beyond 45 degrees, including in the encyclopedia, but not 170-180...

 

[Acronym]

@Acronym, see if this helps. You will see there is no hard reference to degree of rotation. There are tons of WT/Kukkiwon books that will give all sorts of different information. None of them are necessarily wrong, which can add to the confusion.
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/front/pageView.action?cmd=/eng/information/taekwondoSkill2

I can assure you that modern KKW is 170-180 degrees. Older masters teaching older systems of KKW might very well do 45 degrees like ITF. That I don't know.

 

[Acronym]

Again, 170-180 degrees, straight from Korea, and it's not even very new..

 

[Acronym]

And here's Susska, a world champion in ITF forms to wrap it up.

 

[Buka]

But don't you American Karate guys also do the side thrusting kick? Shotokan Karate does both the snapping and the hip extention one... The snapping is the one you describe.

We do every type of side kick that I know of, at least the more athletic, flexible students do. We do that with every kick.

With the less athletically gifted, less flexible students, we still teach them all the kicks, keying on the mechanics and weaknesses that every single kick has.

Some people won’t realistically ever be able to throw jump spinning kicks. But they sure like learning how to rip someone out of the air when it’s being thrown at them. You eat a lot of kicks learning like that but it’s how to learn against resistance. And it’s a lot of fun.

 

[Acronym]

We do every type of side kick that I know of, at least the more athletic, flexible students do. We do that with every kick.

With the less athletically gifted, less flexible students, we still teach them all the kicks, keying on the mechanics and weaknesses that every single kick has.

Some people won’t realistically ever be able to throw jump spinning kicks. But they sure like learning how to rip someone out of the air when it’s being thrown at them. You eat a lot of kicks learning like that but it’s how to learn against resistance. And it’s a lot of fun.

Funnily enough, ageing might also change your style. I know a TKD instructor who kicks in his senior age (60ish) more like Karate roundhouse kicks (crouched posture). He is still doing the splits and everything but maybe he's more careful these days. I know for a fact he threw them differently in the pictures from the 80s. Side kicks he does the same as before.

 

[Acronym]

Back to this rotation business. I don't believe an instructor of either organization would fail you in a grading if you do a 180 degrees KKW pivot in an ITF grading or vice versa. They might point it out but I doubt they would fail you.

And there's also this thing of "advanced practitioners move freely".. mantra.. so I'm agnostic as to whether it's fundamental or just a preference.

They don't check for every parameter in gradings.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Should his target be 30 degree (or even 45 degree) to his left and not just straight in front of him? His target may be in front of him. But he will need that extra 30 degree to let his kicking power to go through.

 

[dvcochran]

I can assure you that modern KKW is 170-180 degrees. Older masters teaching older systems of KKW might very well do 45 degrees like ITF. That I don't know.

Funny but both your videos below look "older". I know of no one teaching 180° for a roundhouse kick. It is not necessary and just makes no sense, doing more harm than good.
The KKW link I attached is as current as you will find. Like I said nowhere do they mention a specific angle but clearly show in the pictures and videos that dollyo chagi is Not 180°.
Now some people need more rotation to make certain kicks work. Not necessarily wrong while they are working on increasing their stretch but I have seen it create some bad habits that were hard to break.
Try this; time several rear leg mid to high level roundhouse kicks with the standing foot at 45° or less and then time several with the standing foot fully rotated as you mention. See which kick is quicker from start to finish back to the starting position.

 

[Acronym]

@Jaeimseu

Still 170-180 degrees rotation for dolyo chagi in your class?

 

[Acronym]

The KKW link I attached is as current as you will find. Like I said nowhere do they mention a specific angle but clearly show in the pictures and videos that dollyo chagi is Not 180°.
Now some people need more rotation to make certain kicks work. Not necessarily wrong while they are working on increasing their stretch but I have seen it create some bad habits that were hard to break.
.

Like I wrote before, the picture illustrations aren't always displaying the precise parameters.

It's the same in the ITF encyclopedia where they overrotate the base foot in the dolyo chagi photos.

 

[Acronym]

It is not necessary and just makes no sense, doing more harm than good.
.

Maybe it generates more power but I agree it seems overcooked. My lenses are ITF though.

 

[Acronym]

Grandmaster in KKW.. 180 degrees again...

 

[Jaeimseu]

@Jaeimseu

Still 170-180 degrees rotation for dolyo chagi in your class?

For poomsae, yes. For sparring it depends on the footwork used.


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[Acronym]

For poomsae, yes. For sparring it depends on the footwork used.


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Thanks. Then I'll let you slug it out with @dvchorchan because I don't have a dog in this fight. He does not think there is any reason to rotate that much. You say?

 

[dvcochran]

Grandmaster in KKW.. 180 degrees again...

Um, no. Again, not on the dollyo chagi, only on the yeop chagi shown in the video. There is a lot of variation depending on the intent of the kick.
Did you see how he got 'stuck' on his heel on one dollyo chagi? That is an inherent problem with over-rotation.