alternative forms interpretation

[lonecoyote]

Ever done a kata or form, and had an instructor give you the application, and later you thought something like, you know that would make a lot more sense as a forearm strike or whatever? Or even worse, be given an explanation and think no way, that's ridiculous. I think forms are meant to put more tools in our toolbox, and alternative applications, if you try them out with a partner and find they work well enough, are okay. I had a shotokan instructor tell me once "oh yeah, that up block, change the angle a little and its a forearm to up under the chin" I though that was pretty good. Some instructors won't think out of the box though.

 

[clfsean]

Yep... I normally find 3 to 5 different variations of motions including locks, throws & breaks.


If you don't find on your own or your teacher doesn't present alternative applications... you may want to reexamine how you've been taught & whom by.

 

[terryl965]

Yes every application has atleast 3-5 variation to them we all put are on interpetation to the Art in question.

 

[oldnewbie]

I think that interpretation is the greatest way to learn Kata.
My shotokan instructor would laugh as we would try to find interpretations before we even learned the whole Kata.

 

[Andrew Green]

If you look hard enough you can find just about anything... Thats one of the big reasons I gave up on forms

But yes, many (most) of the commonly taught applications are just plain silly. In the end it is all just movement and structure, thats all. How to move and remain "structurally sound" how you apply that movement and structure is up to you.

Like typing, when learning to type you might type "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." In reality you probably never need that series of keystrokes, but yet it will teach you how to type.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I agree with Andrew. I look at forms as being abstractions of movement to teach coordination, balance, focus, proper 'ideal' technique, etc...I don't think about them too much in terms of self-defense or combat. Maybe that's the wrong attitude, but it keeps me from worrying about 'well this is stupid...'

 

[TaiChiTJ]

I still do a form, however I am struggling with some kind of approach to understanding applications in general. I have made some baby steps in this direction and here is a description of what I do:

I stay in the English language. I simply describe to myself where my hands at any given moment might be, for example, "a hand high and a hand low", lets say my left hand is a foot in front of my chin and my right hand is low, below my waist. Then I visualize all the possible applications of this or I get together with a training partner and work it out. If he threw a straight right punch, and I slipped it and am now "outside" it, at his right side, my high left hand could shoot under his extended right arm. My left shoulder is bumping fairly hard into his right rib cage just below his right shoulder. Meanwhile, at about the same time, my right hand, the low one, is locating behind his right knee. Circling my torso leftward, my left arm straight, and a little help in a lifting action with my right hand can topple him. It is heighth dependent (I am 6'3"), and speed is necessary, of course, but I have made it work.

This system of saying where the hands are is better for me than memorizing "Return tiger to mountain" or some such thing.

A hand in front and a hand in back is what you see in alot of martial arts ads. Tae Kwon Do ads and such where both hands are on about same geometric plane but one is close to the body and the other is straight out a ways. This is tai chi's "roll back".

So anyway I think like that alot. Whatever method a person dreams up, it is necessary, I believe, to start developing a system that works for them.

I have not purchased this information but if anybody has I would be very interested in a asking a few questions about it.

http://www.bushido-kai.net/budoya/video_karate_list.html

 

[MJS]

Forms definately have their pros and cons. They are important in ways because they do teach you stances, blocks, strikes, kicks, movement while striking, etc. As for the applications...yes, there can be many different applications to the forms. One thing that is key though, is making sure that you have an inst. that can teach you the meaning of the moves, and not say something like, "Because thats the way its done!" That to me is a poor explaination.

Mike