Aiki Jiu Jitsu

gpseymour

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Just looking at it from a structure point of view it is not very good and does not display any Aikijujutsu or even Aiki for that matter, but if you enjoy it and see Aikijujutsu and think its good that is great!
None of that is what I said I saw.
 
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vince1

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That isn't Mr. Carrothers, according to comments. Those are two brown belts demonstrating techniques for someone working on their "second white" (whatever that is). I recognize the base techniques in there, though it looks like they don't include structure control at that level - just the positioning for it, at least in the forms in that demonstration.

You are absolutely correct about it not being Master Carrothers he was off to the side during the video. They are actually demonstrating techniques slowly for first and second white. And yes they are not including structure and control but in time he does switch the focus to fine tuning the technique. It really depends on the individual and how quickly he/she absorbs what is being taught and able to execute.

I saw this same video before I joined and thought it was very sloppy and fake. I finally convinced myself to at least sign up for a private class and meet Master Carrothers. I was totally blown away and quickly realized what I had been missing all these years given my martial arts background. I was able to witness many of these same techniques as well as advanced techniques not shown in the video sped up. It was mind blowing !

I actually mentioned to Master Carrothers the video should be removed and an updated one should be put up with advanced students demonstrating the techniques.Apparently an individual came forward 6 years ago and asked Master Carrothers if they could video tape it. The individual was suppose to come back and video tape advanced techniques but for some reason never came back and found out later he moved away. I am currently working on first and second white belt along with sword form #1. The subtle hand technique placement and footwork is making it very interesting. Fortunately my previous mantis martial arts background has helped me with regards to muscle memory.

I am keeping a very open mind and have always been somewhat of a skeptic but this martial art seems to be more of a fit mentally/physically.
 

gpseymour

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You are absolutely correct about it not being Master Carrothers he was off to the side during the video. They are actually demonstrating techniques slowly for first and second white. And yes they are not including structure and control but in time he does switch the focus to fine tuning the technique. It really depends on the individual and how quickly he/she absorbs what is being taught and able to execute.

I saw this same video before I joined and thought it was very sloppy and fake. I finally convinced myself to at least sign up for a private class and meet Master Carrothers. I was totally blown away and quickly realized what I had been missing all these years given my martial arts background. I was able to witness many of these same techniques as well as advanced techniques not shown in the video sped up. It was mind blowing !

I actually mentioned to Master Carrothers the video should be removed and an updated one should be put up with advanced students demonstrating the techniques.Apparently an individual came forward 6 years ago and asked Master Carrothers if they could video tape it. The individual was suppose to come back and video tape advanced techniques but for some reason never came back and found out later he moved away. I am currently working on first and second white belt along with sword form #1. The subtle hand technique placement and footwork is making it very interesting. Fortunately my previous mantis martial arts background has helped me with regards to muscle memory.

I am keeping a very open mind and have always been somewhat of a skeptic but this martial art seems to be more of a fit mentally/physically.
I take a fairly neutral view when I see things like what's in that video. I recognize it as a formal technique (what the mainline of my primary art would call a "classical technique"), and I know that sometimes even good practitioners of the style fall into bad habits in those formal techniques, especially when they are teaching them to/demonstrating them for newer students. Newer students tend to do them without good structure control initially, anyway, and sometimes people get into the habit of demonstrating them the way they actually expect the student to replicate them (including those deficiencies).

In other words, I see problems with what's done there, but I know those problems can exist in formal techniques and suddenly vanish in application. IMO, it's not a good habit to get into (treating the formal techniques so differently), but it's not always an indication of a flaw in the overall approach.
 

gpseymour

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@vince1 - I was interested to see the English naming for those techniques. It seems at least partly a fairly direct translation from some of the Japanese names for them. Our translation to English took a different route, though some of the names are similar.
 
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vince1

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@vince1 - I was interested to see the English naming for those techniques. It seems at least partly a fairly direct translation from some of the Japanese names for them. Our translation to English took a different route, though some of the names are similar.

I will ask Master Carrothers for my own copy of the curriculum and find out if he is willing to let me share that with you. It doesn't hurt to ask.
 

gpseymour

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I will ask Master Carrothers for my own copy of the curriculum and find out if he is willing to let me share that with you. It doesn't hurt to ask.
Thank you. If he prefers I make some request myself, I'm more than happy to do so, and to share anything I have with him, if it can be of any use.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I actually mentioned to Master Carrothers the video should be removed and an updated one should be put up with advanced students demonstrating the techniques
This would be a good idea. I don't know what level brown belts are supposed to be at in your system, but it's not good advertising for the school to have video up of students performing techniques poorly without being corrected.
 
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vince1

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This would be a good idea. I don't know what level brown belts are supposed to be at in your system, but it's not good advertising for the school to have video up of students performing techniques poorly without being corrected.

I think any martial artist looking in from the outside especially not having any experience in that particular martial art being demonstrated would find fault. I initially did as mentioned earlier by watching the video until I actually was being taught/shown the technique in a classroom setting. It took me a couple of weeks of practicing before I could actually pull it off and feel completely comfortable with it.

It has been very interesting learning some of the very basic Aiki Jiu jItsu techniques over the last few weeks. I would throw in some of my mantis kung fu in to try and mess up my teacher up. It made my private class very interesting and quickly revealed how good he really was. I regard my Mantis Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do experience to be a very valuable asset when needed but feel learning the Aiki Jiu Jitsu will prove to be more beneficial.
 
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vince1

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Thank you. If he prefers I make some request myself, I'm more than happy to do so, and to share anything I have with him, if it can be of any use.
Gerry would you happen to have videos that you could post of lower ranking and higher ranking belts demonstrating Nihon Goshin Aikido ?Thank you.
 

gpseymour

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Gerry would you happen to have videos that you could post of lower ranking and higher ranking belts demonstrating Nihon Goshin Aikido ?Thank you.
I don't have any, though there are some on YouTube. John Carter's approach is closer to my own view than most. There's one marketing video by Robert MacEwen that just flashes through a number of the classical forms.

If you browse through the different offerings on YouTube, you'll find the usual range and differences. There's very little sparring posted (and what I've been able to find was usually not good). Most schools don't post much (if anything) from actual classes, so most is demonstration and teaching videos. That latter point goes to the request about lower ranking practitioners - I haven't seen much video of them.
 
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vince1

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Hi vince1,

I'll try to help a little bit. The history you heard regarding the late Gozo Shioda (direct student of Aikido's founder Morihei Ueshiba) and the late Takashi Kushida (direct student of Shioda) is pretty much correct. The timing is off a little.

I was fortunate to have attended a few of Kushida-sensei's demonstrations, and sat in on one of his classes while I lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan in the early 1990's, shortly after he parted ways with his teacher's organization. Watching him and comparing his work to films of his teacher, they're very much the same. In my opinion, a credit to early Aikido. I was also fortunate enough to have met some of Kushida's students during my time at Eastern Michigan University when they held classes on campus. FYI, EMU's just a few miles East of Ann Arbor.

Shioda's early Yoshinkai and Kushida's Yoshokai have always used the term "Aikido" to describe their teaching and practice. But as far as their Aikido goes, it could be said to be a bit "hard", with more emphasis on striking and pinning, plus a structured curriculum of techniques that's not common with other branches of Aikido, in my opinion. If you watch films of either of them, it's clearly Aikido. I say "clearly" meaning in contrast to Daito-ryu. There is some really cool crossover happening here with Shioda and Kushida and what Ueshiba learned from his Daito-ryu teacher.

Now we get into nomenclature, naming stuff, and unfortunately marketing and personal interpretation blurs it all. What's worse, is that in the '60's some western publications made a really big deal about the differences between "do" and "jutsu". There is no such polarization in Japan. The Japanese see it as one, the same.

Inside Daito-ryu, there is a catalog of techniques Among them is a set of jujutsu 柔術, aikinojutsu 合気之術, and aikijutsu 合気柔術.

Anyone can name their teachings "aiki jiu jitsu". It's a fad, often an attempt to say "we do it harder" than aikido, so be careful.

I'm a student of Hakkoryu, some might call it an offshoot of Daito-ryu, like Aikido. Hakkoryu's founder was happy to call it all "jujutsu" but many of the interesting things are all included.

Hey vince1, spend time with him! Go out of your way to do it. You might have found a gold mine in your own back yard.


Devon Smith
Hi Devon, thank you for the insight. I do agree what Kushida taught was hard , the striking and pinning aspect etc. Master Carrother's has emphasized the striking aspect where as Ueshiba changed from striking to raising his hand/arm as a distraction and then following through with the technique. Kushida emphasized to Master Carrother's the strike, by making it count if at all possible to bring down your opponent .The reason why Ueshiba changed this was when around the time he found religion. Whether this is accurate or not, it did change.
Master Carrothers was able to demonstrate to me the way Ushiba would of done a particular technique without the striking. I prefer the striking ,pinning, kicking aspect and find it to be more effective. Seems to be more complete in my personal opinion and respect Kushida for sticking to what he felt to be more effective.
Thank you !
 

Anarax

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I was a student of Chow Gar Southern Mantis for about a year along with some Hapkido/Jiu Jitsu mixed in. Unfortunately I had to drive an hour both ways every Saturday morning for my weekly class. I decided to look in my own backyard and found a Master Carrothers that teaches traditional Aiki Jiu Jitsu 5 minutes away from my home. The system is from Yoshinkai Aki Jiu Jitsu (Shioda). Master Carrothers learned from Koshida one of Shiodas main students over 25 years ago in Flint Michigan.

So far I have taken a few classes and have quickly learned that their are so many subtle finer points to perfect a technique. It is a complete martial art that takes many years to accomplish and feel very fortunate/humble to be learning this martial art.

Is anyone else familiar with traditional Aiki Jiu Jitsu ?

We have an Aiki Jiu Jitus instructor that comes to Kali. He's very skilled and knowledgeable in AJJ techniques. I've taken AJJ, Japanese Jujitsu and Aikido. From my experience Japanese Jujitsu and AJJ are more similar than AJJ and Aikido. AJJ feels a lot like JJJ just with more flow to it, a lot of the techniques are similar. This may be due to instructors, lineage or background. Overall, I learned a lot from AJJ
 
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