Advantage Martial Arts Has Over Guns

gyoja

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Hot take, but if you ask me, you should have at least a basic understanding of hand to hand combat before being allowed anywhere near a firearm. You can't even throw a proper punch and you expect me to trust you with a handgun?
One doesn’t equal the other; besides the political issues with that which I won’t discuss.
 

GreenieMeanie

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Hot take, but if you ask me, you should have at least a basic understanding of hand to hand combat before being allowed anywhere near a firearm. You can't even throw a proper punch and you expect me to trust you with a handgun?
As previously discussed with @gyoja , this is purely western thinking. In developing countries, people can have zero tolerance for rude behavior or violations of personal space. There is an invisible tripwire, and if you are ignorant and entitled enough to cross…it will not end well, to say the least.
 

Mallic

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As previously discussed with @gyoja , this is purely western thinking. In developing countries, people can have zero tolerance for rude behavior or violations of personal space. There is an invisible tripwire, and if you are ignorant and entitled enough to cross…it will not end well, to say the least.
I'm not sure I follow.
 

GreenieMeanie

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Additionally, range performance is not real world performance. You aren't yourself when adrenalized...
You go to the range to practice shooting Precision, learn your gun. To practice gunfighting, you use a blue barrel, or practice moving and shooting with your own targets in the middle of nowhere.
 

GreenieMeanie

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I'm not sure I follow.
If you are rude, cross a boundary in western countries, the locals will generally try to deescalate, threaten to call the police. In developing countries, they are quicker to just shoot you or stab you.
 

Mallic

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If you are rude, cross a boundary in western countries, the locals will generally try to deescalate, threaten to call the police. In developing countries, they are quicker to just shoot you or stab you.
We're not talking about situations where you stepped on someone's toes, we're talking about ones where for whatever reason someone is trying to start something with you. Where you're just minding your own business and then someone runs up and tries to mug you or whatever.

Also what triggers people swings so wildly it's honestly ridiculous, like wasn't there one incident where a dude just randomly attacked a woman and the reason he did was because she had short hair and it made her look like a lesbian?

Like you can just set someone off for any reason and have no idea what you did wrong.
 

GreenieMeanie

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We're not talking about situations where you stepped on someone's toes, we're talking about ones where for whatever reason someone is trying to start something with you. Where you're just minding your own business and then someone runs up and tries to mug you or whatever.

Also what triggers people swings so wildly it's honestly ridiculous, like wasn't there one incident where a dude just randomly attacked a woman and the reason he did was because she had short hair and it made her look like a lesbian?

Like you can just set someone off for any reason and have no idea what you did wrong.
Both exist on the accepted continuum of “F around and find out” when you venture outside the fence.

Well, actually, you kinda can. You study whats normal in the place you’re going, apply it to yourself, and avoid attracting attention. Not saying that’s the right way to live, but there is a method to it.
 

GreenieMeanie

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Attempting to detain someone that close is how I got stabbed in the arm.
Shortbarrel Shepherd had great force on force videos, complete scenario training. Now, I can’t find a trace of him except one old YouTube video.
 

HighKick

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I’ll share one or two of them when I’m at a computer. You can dismiss them after you’ve read them. 😀. It’s accurate because there is a serious difference between training and application. They may be able to hit a target, but when involved in a real situation, accuracy may be up to around 30% if they aren’t being shot at, and goes down from there.

The real difficulty is police standards and training are wildly divergent, and information is often not readily available, or available at all. But the studies are as objective and accurate as possible.
Much of what you say is 100% true during live fire exercises. Results are all over the place.

Many departments do a darn good job of live fire training, using simulators (like the military use), shock feedback, and explosive ball feedback. Believe me, the latter two will get your attention and put your pucker factor on high.
 

HighKick

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This might be for gunfights. As previously mentioned not all cops are regular shooters.
I suppose it would depend on how you categorize 'cop'. If you include jailors, bailiffs, and dispatchers, that may change the percentages, but, come on, should they be included?
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I suppose it would depend on how you categorize 'cop'. If you include jailors, bailiffs, and dispatchers, that may change the percentages, but, come on, should they be included?
I have no ideas about this. I'm uninformed on the topic. My ego tells me I would do better than this, but I’m not getting into any gunfights lately. I am also not a cop, but I am a lifelong regular shooter. Maybe we should compare those numbers to civilians and then again to military, and then again to our best military shooters to see what the spread is. Honestly, I think that might be revealing and disappointing on many levels.
 

gyoja

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I have no ideas about this. I'm uninformed on the topic. My ego tells me I would do better than this, but I’m not getting into any gunfights lately. I am also not a cop, but I am a lifelong regular shooter. Maybe we should compare those numbers to civilians and then again to military, and then again to our best military shooters to see what the spread is. Honestly, I think that might be revealing and disappointing on many levels.
I guarantee that you would be disappointed.
 

Steve

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Much of what you say is 100% true during live fire exercises. Results are all over the place.

Many departments do a darn good job of live fire training, using simulators (like the military use), shock feedback, and explosive ball feedback. Believe me, the latter two will get your attention and put your pucker factor on high.
Based on what data is available, I am not sure training actually makes much of a difference. Experience plus good training might, but that would mean cops are seeing more opportunity to fire their weapons outside of training. A bit of a catch 22.

I haven’t been near a computer for several days, but if you looks at some past threads on similar topics, I’ve posted links to some studies here. Or you can check out organizations like Rand, which is referenced in the link below, as well.


Don’t get me wrong. If cops every cop, regardless of what they do or where they work, is going to carry a sidearm, it would be great if we could figure out how to ensure their judgement and their aim is sound.

Just a few questions occur to me. You say “many”. I am pretty sure every single cop in every single department carries a sidearm at all times. How many departments would you say do a darn good job of training? And how many should? Why aren’t there national standards for something so important?
 
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