About problems with women in the dojang?

[HelloKitty]

Hi! ^^

Basically I want your advice and feedback in a situation.

My husband and I are beginning in a new taekwondo school nearer home. We are very happy with the style of the academy, with the instructors and the intensity of the classes, etc. Everything OK.

But I've noticed resistance from some people, especially women. For example, today the secretary of the school, a red belt lady, started doing comments about disagreeing with our grand master because she thinks my husband and I don't deserve the promotion to next belts, etc. It was awkward. Then, she and other girl had sparring with me ("light contact") but they really kicked me hard on purpose. Awkward again. After the class the red belt-lady approached me about several people too afraid of me to talk face to face xtrmshock), complaining because of my hard kicking and other things I didn't understand very well because she was so angry. (...?!)

I don't like weird stories so at the end of the class I talked privately to my instructor, a nice 2nd dan gentleman, and I asked why hadn't he told me about the complains. He was very surprised because no one had complained. He adviced me not to worry about the lady because she apparently is a complicated person, and he assure me I'm working very good. The grand master had no idea of complaining either. The terrible thing is the instructors always tell me to work with this lady because there aren't many women, and they want people of same gender and complexion, etc.

This is my third taekwondo school and I've never seen something like that! I've read several of you are instructors, black belts or high ranks, so how do you face up this kind of situation between students? What would you recommend me to do?

 

[terryl965]

FIrst off I now who you are talking about and she is not worth your time. Sexondly if your GM or Master are not telling you about cocmplainyt then don't worry. Do what come naturally to you. She gas also complained about my wife that she kicks to hard, my comment as been then do not spar her and stay out of tournaments.

Your training should not have to be hinder by somebody with a bad attitude.

 

[Cirdan]

This kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable. If it continues to be a problem, talk to your instructor again. Other than that, this kind of person is best ignored. If you have to spar with her, focus at the task at hand.

 

[morph4me]

I think you've done what you need to do, you spoke to your instructor and made him aware of the situation, so he will probably be keeping an eye out for problems. When it comes down to a disagreement between a red belt and a GM about who deserves what rank, I'd say the GM's opinion is the one that counts.

Sounds to me like the lady doesn't like to be hit, which leaves her basically two choices, learn to block or move better or don't spar.

Don't let her problems affect your training, if you're doing something wrong your instructor will tell you.

 

[exile]

I agree completely with Terry, morph4me and Cirdan about this: you've done exactly the right thing, made your instructor and Gm. aware of the problem, and made it clear you're not the one who's initiating any tension. One thing stands out: the person you're talking about isn't above fabricating things in order to promote whatever neurotic agenda she's pushing. It's one thing to say, I think you kick to hard; it's something else again to make up stories about other students complaining in order to make it seem as though the problem is yours, not hers.

I suspect they know there's something wonky with her. `Complicated person', in my experience, is most often a euphemism that you use to describe someone you know who has a cracked bearing to someone else whom you don't know very well. She may well be regarded as the house nut-case, but at this point they won't be saying that to you. So I'd take some comfort from the thought: they probably know all about her, but for one reason or another keep her there... these kinds of situations often have an involved history. You don't need to worry about that; as the other posters have said, focus on the task at hand, don't let her get to square one with trying to bully or intimidate you, or throw you off your stride, and you'll be fine.

 

[newGuy12]

focus on the task at hand

Yes! Engage yourself in the practice. There are other students there that you can do drills with and practice with. I'm sure that you will cultivate friendships with these other students!

 

[Rich Parsons]

FIrst off I now who you are talking about and she is not worth your time. Sexondly if your GM or Master are not telling you about cocmplainyt then don't worry. Do what come naturally to you. She gas also complained about my wife that she kicks to hard, my comment as been then do not spar her and stay out of tournaments.

Your training should not have to be hinder by somebody with a bad attitude.

Ouch you hit to hard. Stop that. You have no control. These are the things ones hears right before the person does one of two things:

1) Quits because it is too hard.
2) Hurts you - which could be a knock out or serious break. These type of students can sometimes hit hard and not realize they are, and when other sdo it they complain. In my limited 20+ year experience in training, even though it not be TKD.


Recommendations:
1) Always protect yourself be it soft or slight or medium contact. Always assume that it is possible to get hurt. Also if you have more skill (* not I did not say rank *) then you might also be the type to extend it to be responsible for their safety as well, and keep the level down to wear they might not get hurt. But if it is for your training then work on your timing and control and if necessary power as well.
2) As Terry and others have stated, if the instructor and higher ups are not complaining then do not worry. This is like a student in a Calculus class complaining that you do all the hard problems and is setting the curve to high for them.
3) Train with this person, but do not engage her to allow her to think she has any real concern. Just smile and ask her to to have the instructor to tell you about these problems.
4) If you are extroverted and not worried about what others might think, then you can ask in the ladies changing room or before class one on one if not extroverted, and see if anyone really does have a problem with you and is afraid to go to the instructor and has talked to the "RED" belt. This way, you can at least see if someone else thinks you hit to hard and can try to understand about their problem. Maybe they are a white belt and feel overwhelmed. This has a notehr side effect as if you adress these then teh "RED" belt has no issues with you. If there are none, then, you just know how "out there" some people can be.


Good Luck

 

[Balrog]

As has been said before, you did the right thing by reporting it to your instructor.

If the other woman continues to use excessive force, then the next time you spar her, caution her: "Please watch your control" the first time she hits you. It's your option if you want to give her a second warning, but the next time she does it, feed her the foot. When she gets up off the floor, explain that you stepped your sparring up to her level. When she backs down, you'll back down.

I've never seen that fail to work.

 

[Ceicei]

There is also the possibility she may feel threatened by another "new" female in the school. I've seen this happen sometimes when a "top" female wants to stay that way and may try to drive off the other females. Whether this is the situation, I don't know.

All I can say is you handled this correctly by keeping your instructor and GM informed of your concerns. Don't let her bother you too much with her attitude and comments.

- Ceicei

Also one thing to consider: The red belt should, in theory, be able to handle kicks that are "too hard". She has climbed the ranks enough to be able to know how to deflect these kicks and to be able to, if your kicks are truly too hard, approach you in a more diplomatic manner to discuss this issue.

 

[newGuy12]

Also one thing to consider: The red belt should, in theory, be able to handle kicks that are "too hard". She has climbed the ranks enough to be able to know how to deflect these kicks

Haha, true.

Also, she should be able to put the brakes on them by blocking them "hard", if she wished to. That can change the mood, too.

 

[Blindside]

There is also the possibility she may feel threatened by another "new" female in the school. I've seen this happen sometimes when a "top" female wants to stay that way and may try to drive off the other females. Whether this is the situation, I don't know.
- Ceicei

Thats what it sounds like to me, at one point we had about 3 alpha females in the school, and it about drove my instructor nuts.

It sounds like you need to establish your position in the school, step it up on the floor, and see what happens, the other person will either get over it or quit.

Lamont

 

[CatNap]

Sorry to hear about your situation. When I was training in Arnis, I went on a seminar where I got paired with a Filipino guy that wasn't thrilled to work out with a girl. He really hurt me several times with the locks. I got sick of it and gave him a taste of his own medicine almost breaking his hand. He didn't do it again.....

I'd step up the sparring and hit her back as hard as she hits you, but before you do that, tell her in front of everyone before you spar that you really getting banged and she needs to control her strikes better - which you thought she should be able to do at her rank.... Don't hesistate to say something when you're in the middle of sparring either. If she tries anything, call her on it - publically.

Hope your classes go well for you.

 

[CatNap]

Just had a thought - maybe another reason why some of the women are such bitches is because you're so much better looking than them? :ultracoolSome people are shallow...again, sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you hang in there though because no one should force you out of a nice school.

 

[DArnold]

Basically I want your advice and feedback in a situation.

Ok, here goes as here are some other perspectives you may wish to consider!

But I've noticed resistance from some people, especially women. For example, today the secretary of the school, a red belt lady, started doing comments about disagreeing with our grand master because she thinks my husband and I don't deserve the promotion to next belts, etc.

WOW, I can't immagine telling a GM what I think.
I would have to ask you which tenet and part of the student oath does this go against. If that is what your GM allows then you have bigger problems with this class than the lady!

This is none of her business as she is not the instructor.
Of course everyone has a right to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions. The only persons who's opinion that counts and that should matter to you is your Sahbum.

It was awkward. Then, she and other girl had sparring with me ("light contact") but they really kicked me hard on purpose. Awkward again.

This depends on the rules of your class. In ours the junior sets the pace.
How do you know it was on purpose? Did you ask them why? What's in your mind is not necessaraly the way things are. Without communication it is hard to go by feelings, hairs standing up on the back of your neck, or deamons...

There are several unwritten rules of class.

#1 and foremost, reguardless of anything - PROTECT YOURSELF
#2 No one goes to class to get hurt or beat on.

After the class the red belt-lady approached me about several people too afraid of me to talk face to face xtrmshock), complaining because of my hard kicking and other things I didn't understand very well because she was so angry. (...?!)

If she was angry then this was not the time to talk about this. You must understand that pain is decided by the receiver and not the giver and you may have gotten pounded on because they felt you were out of controll. Rather than being confrontational be political and put things in the form of a question. This could help difuse the wall.

I don't like weird stories so at the end of the class I talked privately to my instructor, a nice 2nd dan gentleman, and I asked why hadn't he told me about the complains. He was very surprised because no one had complained. He adviced me not to worry about the lady because she apparently is a complicated person, and he assure me I'm working very good. The grand master had no idea of complaining either.

Most of the time students do not get out of controll in front of the instructor so they don't know that it happened. But on the other hand they do find out about things through stories like the one you told them. And a good instructor knows that every story has two sides so they will not jump to a summary judgement. They store it and watch for it as they know if a student has some type of attitude problem it will surface again.
As the saying goes: The nail that sticks out will get pounded in. But unfortunately... you could be the nail

If you are looking for people to agree with you then I'm sorry because the story is one sided and you may have been hitting to hard.

Now comes some suggestions:

Ask your instructor to watch you the next time you spar

This is a hurdle that is good for you because it tests your mental capabilities which is much more important than how you kick and punch. Do you solve the problem, expect the instructor to solve the problem, run away?

The terrible thing is the instructors always tell me to work with this lady because there aren't many women, and they want people of same gender and complexion, etc.

This makes no sense to me as it is far from the real world!

This is my third taekwondo school and I've never seen something like that! I've read several of you are instructors, black belts or high ranks, so how do you face up this kind of situation between students? What would you recommend me to do?

Listen, Watch, Talk

 

[Flying Crane]

Hi! ^^

The terrible thing is the instructors always tell me to work with this lady because there aren't many women, and they want people of same gender and complexion, etc.

Now that's a weird thing. Might want to find out what's up with that...

 

[HelloKitty]

I hope everything will be OK. I really appreciate the replies!

Especially from DArnold. It's difficult to show disagreement openly. I'm sorry you think this could be about looking for agreement, self-compassion, running away or other kind of reasons. I can tell you why I have written sentences like "they kicked hard on purpose" but I think the main points of the story are covered and I don't want to exceed the necessary lenght of the thread.

 

[terryl965]

I hope everything will be OK. I really appreciate the replies!

Especially from DArnold. It's difficult to show disagreement openly. I'm sorry you think this could be about looking for agreement, self-compassion, running away or other kind of reasons. I can tell you why I have written sentences like "they kicked hard on purpose" but I think the main points of the story are covered and I don't want to exceed the necessary lenght of the thread.

Please explain what you would like, that is the great thing about Martial Talk it is a place where one can express freely and be heard and appreciated.

 

[HelloKitty]

Now that's a weird thing. Might want to find out what's up with that...

Oh, Im' sorry! I didn't mean "complexion" but "body type" (still improving my english LOL)

Thanks Terry. I'll answer later when I have more time then.

 

[Tez3]

Kitty, your English is pretty good, don't worry! In British English we will often use the word complexion meaning 'type' or 'character' rather than anything to do with face or colour.

I remember when I was a white belt in TSD and visiting another club associated with my instructor, a female black belt who was intent on making sure the females training were kept firmly in their place. She was sarcastic and patronising to the women and girls when taking them through their hyungs which I put up with but when it came to sparring she was in trouble. The regular women there all lower belts she hit far too hard and fast, no lower belts leading there.This despite the chief instructor saying light contact only. When she came to me I could see she was going to go hard and fast on me too which was fine so I let her go for it first, she kicked me hard which I felt gave me the right to then go for it. She wasn't a happy bunny when I'd finished. I'm not talented in sparring but at that point though a white belt in TSD I was a 1st Kyu Wado Ryu a few weeks away from grading black and had been competing full contact karate for a while as well as training MMA. I've never been back, it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Kacey]

As DArnold said, there are 2 sides to every story... sometimes there are 3, or 4, or more

The only way to find out what is going on with this woman is to talk to her at a time when she is not angry. In the meantime, you have spoken to your instructor about her comments, and that's good - and I agree that your instructor should watch the next time you spar, both this woman and someone else, so that a comparison can be made to see any differences with different opponents.

In the end, however, you have to remember that you train for yourself - not for those around you. If your instructor thinks you are ready to test, then you're ready; others' opinions shouldn't really matter (although it's hard not to listen to them, being as people don't have ear-lids).