A Study of Englishness?

[Sukerkin]

http://www.ippr.org/publications/55...ed-england-as-an-emerging-political-community

I haven't read this through yet, so I don't know where it's study will lead but I thought it was an interesting thing to look at as the reaction to the rest of the UK getting vociferous about being their own countries - very foolishly in my opinion and mostly at the behest of self-serving politicians.

Here's a related bit of discourse on the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18355571

 

[Jenna]

It is a very interesting document Mark.. I think this "we pay more and do not reap our fair share" it is what many here in London already think quietly to theirselves about pretty much every other part of England. I think what Wales Scotland and NI do with their parliaments devolved I think that is a good way to keep the integrity of the union while giving autonomy to a degree.. I still agree though with many in this report who feel we here in England put in more and get less out.. Fiscal autonomy I do not imagine would be feasible for Wales or NI?? I do not know for sure.. Though like what do they produce in Wales or NI now there is no coal nor Titanic ha.. Scotland there is some years remaining in NS oil they say.. It would work for them for a little while?? They all rely on England I think that is to my knowledge a fact.. Perhaps that is a natural consequence of being a union. I am guessing the same feelings of disparity exist in USA also between high earning productive states and lower earning or more needy states.. It is interesting thank you.

 

[Tez3]

It is a very interesting document Mark.. I think this "we pay more and do not reap our fair share" it is what many here in London already think quietly to theirselves about pretty much every other part of England. I think what Wales Scotland and NI do with their parliaments devolved I think that is a good way to keep the integrity of the union while giving autonomy to a degree.. I still agree though with many in this report who feel we here in England put in more and get less out.. Fiscal autonomy I do not imagine would be feasible for Wales or NI?? I do not know for sure.. Though like what do they produce in Wales or NI now there is no coal nor Titanic ha.. Scotland there is some years remaining in NS oil they say.. It would work for them for a little while?? They all rely on England I think that is to my knowledge a fact.. Perhaps that is a natural consequence of being a union. I am guessing the same feelings of disparity exist in USA also between high earning productive states and lower earning or more needy states.. It is interesting thank you.

Speaking from Yorkshire it's felt 'oop North' that London takes more than it's fair share and there's little left for the rest of England never mind the rest of the UK. Civil servants and those in my job doing the same work as those in London get paid less they they do, there's a thing called 'London Weighting Allowance' which says as the cost of living is higher in London they get paid more.

What do other parts of the country provide the 'Union' with, Scotland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Scotland, Wales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Wales and the North of England http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/15/north-holds-key-to-recovery


The south of England retains much of it's wealth, doesn't share it and yet is berating the rest of the UK? to suggest that is to invite a lot of non southerners to be very vocal in their condemnation. Incomes in the south of England are the highest per head in Europe, perhaps however rather than thinking they are supporting the rest of the country they may well look at the money that is being given to Brazil as aid, a country than is actually richer than we are. If the government's plan goes ahead we will be paid 'regional wages' which means those in London and the south will get paid even more while the rest of the country has their pay cut.
http://money.uk.msn.com/warning-on-regional-pay-rates-plan

 

[oftheherd1]

Interesting. I think we in the USA understand there is an England, Scotland, Ireland, and others. I am pretty sure most in the USA don't realize there are still people there who think of themselves as only Scotts, Irish, or whatever, and what that might mean. Of course we decided in the USA that once you join as a state, you can't leave it, and fought a civil war to prove that was going to be so.

I have heard about separatist from time to time, but are there that many people in the UK that seriously think about leaving the UK and forming another country?

Oh, as to sharing wealth, that issue is raised from time to time in the USA. But it has been more and less accepted in one form or another. Telephone and electrical rates are what they are with the understanding that those living in rural areas were being supported by those in more populous areas.

 

[Tez3]

Interesting. I think we in the USA understand there is an England, Scotland, Ireland, and others. I am pretty sure most in the USA don't realize there are still people there who think of themselves as only Scotts, Irish, or whatever, and what that might mean. Of course we decided in the USA that once you join as a state, you can't leave it, and fought a civil war to prove that was going to be so.

I have heard about separatist from time to time, but are there that many people in the UK that seriously think about leaving the UK and forming another country?

Oh, as to sharing wealth, that issue is raised from time to time in the USA. But it has been more and less accepted in one form or another. Telephone and electrical rates are what they are with the understanding that those living in rural areas were being supported by those in more populous areas.

Shetland often thinks about going independant, it could do it too with it being very rich from the oil and investing the money wisely. It won't want to be in with Scotland because the Islanders don't regard themselves as Scottish!. The Isle of Man isn't part of GB, Scotland and Wales could look at going down that route, the Channel Islands are the same as the Isle of Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Dependencies

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/scotland-blog/2012/mar/19/islanders-threaten-salmond-independence-plans

 

[andy.m]

I haven't had chance to read this yet, so more later, after I have. But, I find it interesting that on many web sites etc, you have a choice of being : British, Scottish , Welsh , Irish or any number of other groupings especially on government web sites - but never English ! Wonder why ?

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, it's one of the things that is getting discussed more frequently at present. I think it is rising as an 'issue' because of the vociferousness of some of the other member nations of the Union protests about their 'unique' identity.

A lot of 'us' (the naughty, evil English who so oppress them) have had enough of it - it's one thing to be proud of your birthplace, it is quite another to have an unjustified persecution complex about how hard done by that birthplace is and still another to constantly bring it up. People need to be careful about such things because otherwise it can come to define you in a negative way rather than being just a facet of your character (both individual and national).

 

[billc]

I've studied Englishness a bit. Don't they walk around saying things like "Pip, Pip, Cheerio." They drink tea and eat something called chips, which aren't made out of potatoes. They walk around with Bowler hats and umbrellas. They also don't speak English properly like Americans do. They say things like "Trash Bin," say "lift," instead of elevator, and say "Telly," instead of television. :angel:

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: A few flaws in your research there, old boy .

Our chips most definitely are made from potatoes and most scrummy too . "Dustbin" rather than "trash bin" too - I think from the days when the most common contents of such bins was the ash from coal fires.

 

[Jenna]

I've studied Englishness a bit. Don't they walk around saying things like "Pip, Pip, Cheerio." They drink tea and eat something called chips, which aren't made out of potatoes. They walk around with Bowler hats and umbrellas. They also don't speak English properly like Americans do. They say things like "Trash Bin," say "lift," instead of elevator, and say "Telly," instead of television. :angel:

ahaha.. you are a blatant stirrer mister!! Now.. be a good chap and go stir me a nice cuppa tea instead.. Darjeeling if you please my good man

 

[billc]

I was in a hurry when I posted about the chips, and confused the fish of fish and chips with the actual chip. However, I do think I got the "Pip, Pip, cheerio," correct.:angel:

 

[Jenna]

I was in a hurry when I posted about the chips, and confused the fish of fish and chips with the actual chip. However, I do think I got the "Pip, Pip, cheerio," correct.:angel:

If you come here to North London I absolutely promise pip, pip, cheerio will get you a good reaction among the locals Bill.. just please keep your guards up is all

 

[K-man]

In terms of 'Englishness', from Australia I would invite you all to join me on our Queen's Birthday weekend holiday, in raising a glass to our Dear Lady across the oceans. Before any of you lads and lassies from those small islands tell me that the Queen's real birthday is April, I will point out that we celebrate it in June to confuse the Americans.

Now out here, we are far enough away to be free of the awful internal ructions in the North, or those really long words emanating from that Western province. And, we learned to live with the Irish over two hundred years ago. We have the best of all worlds. :ultracool

Well toodle pip old chums, must away to celebrate the occasion you know. Hip,Hip, Hooray and all that. :s433:

 

[Tez3]

In terms of 'Englishness', from Australia I would invite you all to join me on our Queen's Birthday weekend holiday, in raising a glass to our Dear Lady across the oceans. Before any of you lads and lassies from those small islands tell me that the Queen's real birthday is April, I will point out that we celebrate it in June to confuse the Americans.

Now out here, we are far enough away to be free of the awful internal ructions in the North, or those really long words emanating from that Western province. And, we learned to live with the Irish over two hundred years ago. We have the best of all worlds. :ultracool

Well toodle pip old chums, must away to celebrate the occasion you know. Hip,Hip, Hooray and all that. :s433:

All the chaps are celebrating even in the 'dry' places!