A Recent Datu Kelly Worden Interview

[norshadow1]

A friend of mine came across a recent interview with Datu Kelly Worden. I am guessing that it was done last month. It's quite long and he hits some topics pretty hard. I am including the site address so that you can read it for yourselves.

http://www.realfighting.com/1102/KwordenART.html


Here are some excepts that should convey a sense of what Datu Worden has saying to the interviewer. The RF refers to the term Real Fighter, the name of the website.

RF
You're known to have worked closely with Remy Presas.

Worden
Yes, actually I'm the first and highest ranked American that he promoted to Datu, that was in 1988. In Victoria Canada at the end of his life he offered me higher Dan Ranking but I refused. Years ago, when I was involved in the ranking aspect of the art of the art he had awarded me a 6th degree Black belt in conjunction with my Datu title.

RF
That is very interesting; did Professor Presas want to keep developing Modern Arnis?

Worden
Yes, of course, if he didn't progress his system, he himself would be bored. That's the gift he gave me, he gave me the gift to blend and correlate the system according to how I felt it was feasible and functional. That is why he created the Datu level instructors to expand and continue the progression (Research and Development) of Modern Arnis. This statement was published in Inside Kung Fu August 2001 issue of "Filipino Martial Arts Magazine" in an article written by Dr. Jim Sullivan. The magazine was released in June or July 2001 while Professor was alive and he confirmed the contents of the article as accurate!

RF
Who are some of the top Modern Arnis masters here in the U.S.?

Worden
There are many skilled players and a great deal who have remained quiet and worked very hard to establish strong independent systems of Modern Arnis
Lee Lowry
Tom Bolden
Dr. Jerome Barber
Doug Pierre
Dr. Randy Shea
Bram Frank
David Ng
Billy Bryant
Michael Bates
Dan Andeson

That last quote is very relevent given the recent comments made by Red Blade concerning Dr. Barber and the upcoming Symposium.
If I am reading this correctly, there are four (4) Symposium instructors on the above list cited by Datu Worden,
Tom Bolden, Bram Frank, David Ng and Dan Anderson. And of course the event is being coordianted by Dr. Barber.

I also did a little background checking and found a very significant piece of information that needs to be reported. In 1993, at the FIRST World Martial Arts Hall of Fame induction program, Datu Worden was joined by PG Tom Bolden, PG Douglas Pierre, and PG Billy Bryant as the FIRST Modern Arnis players to be recognized by any awards group in the country. Dr. Barber, conducted a demonstration of stick to empty hand translations at the 1993 program and was inducted into the WMA Hall of Fame the following year, 1994.

I believe that it is quite important to re-state the matter for people like Red Blade and Arnis Princess. The VERY FIRST MODERN ARNIS Practitioners, other than GM Presas, to be recognized by a national or international awards granting
organization were Datu Kelly Worden, PG Tom Bolden, PG Billy Bryant, PG Douglas Pierre and Dr. Jerome Barber.

Folks, you can blow-off the Modern Arnis Symposium if you want but you should recognize that doing that may not be to your advantage. There are 5 people on the program that have the endorsement of Datu kelly Worden. He is not blowing off the Modern Arnis Symposium, he is merely hosting another program.

Lamont

 

[norshadow1]

I forgot to add, that there are some things mentioned by Datu Wordern that I disagree with, but that can wait until some others read the interview and make their own comments.

Lamont

 

[Liam_G]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4883

It's been discussed quite a bit here, as in the above thread ... there was a lot of "bad blood" in the thread above, so I hesitate to bring it up. However, I thought that we should realize that this has been discussed before, and hopefully we won't have to go back down the road of the same disagreements that were brought up in the last thread ...

Humbly, and with Best Regards,
Liam

 

[bloodwood]

norshadow

I don't know what the hell you're trying to do here, but it is in poor taste. This is OLD stuff that caused trouble. It's been put to rest and you have no business digging up bones. What ever you think your reasons are for this they won't float.
If you think controversy will bring more people to the symposium, think again. I don't think this discussion should continue, and I hope the others here on MT agree with me.

bloodwood

 

[Liam_G]

Originally posted by Liam_G
there was a lot of "bad blood" in the thread above ...

Humbly, and with Best Regards,
Liam

Oh ... and just to make myself perfectly clear: my use of the phrase "bad blood" in quotes was not intended to be any play on words with your alias, Bloodwood ...

It was probably a poor choice of words by me, as you were very active in the previous thread. I meant nothing by that phrase: it was accidental.

I was going to just edit my post to add a note to this effect, but the 60 minute time limit for edits has expired ...

Sincerely,
Liam

 

[Dan Anderson]

To make left turn at Albuequerque, the Sympo in July is going to be good despite any controversy, real or imagined. I'm glad a number of the instructors are endorsed by Kelly. It IS soing to be a good event, if I have anything to do about it.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bloodwood]

No problem. I think we're on the same page on this one.

Dan

You are right, the symposium will be an excellent event, however norshadow is still out of line.

bloodwood

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by Liam_G
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4883

It's been discussed quite a bit here, as in the above thread ... there was a lot of "bad blood" in the thread above, so I hesitate to bring it up. However, I thought that we should realize that this has been discussed before, and hopefully we won't have to go back down the road of the same disagreements that were brought up in the last thread ...

Humbly, and with Best Regards,
Liam

I am sorry that I posted on a subject that had been discussed earlier and before I came onboard matrialtalk.com. The information was new to me and I reported on it as such. Thanks for the info and thread address. I can see that there was some heated comments. If you would note carefully, I did not comment on any of the negatives. I did mention that there some things that I did not agree with in the interview.

I appriciate your response and the information provided.

Lamont

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by bloodwood
norshadow

I don't know what the hell you're trying to do here, but it is in poor taste. This is OLD stuff that caused trouble. It's been put to rest and you have no business digging up bones. What ever you think your reasons are for this they won't float.
If you think controversy will bring more people to the symposium, think again. I don't think this discussion should continue, and I hope the others here on MT agree with me.

bloodwood

You are absolutely correct, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO I AM! And I do not know just who in the hell you are either! Nor do I want to know you because you are ill-mannered, rude and highly opinioned.

Whether or not people come to the symposium is not my concern. There have been inferences made for quite some time and you are one of the leaders of gloom in terms of busting on the symposium idea. Yes, I will be there. Yes, I like and have a great deal of respect for DocB and several of the people who will be instructing there. I like and respect people who have open minds and think positively. You are not one of those people.
You questioned prices, dates and potential instructors right from the start. I doubt that you would be at the symposium and since you are hiding behind a screen name, it is difficult for anyone to know if you are skilled or just angry.

Since the information in the interview was totally new to me, I reported it in an honest manner and I deliberately left out any negative comments as stated by Datu Worden. It was not my place to tell the readers of this forum what to believe and I certinly did not want contribute to negative comments and opinions.

Since that original thread was discussed there have been a number of people such as myself who joined this forum. We did not necessarily know about the thread. We certinly should have an opportunity to read the interview and form our own opinions regardles of whether or not a thread had already run on the forum.

My point with regard to mentioning the people named Datu Worden as top Modern Arnis instructors was to balance the scales a bit. A couple of people, but not you, have tried to use Datu Worden's decision to host the Marppio group on the same weekend in Washington State as an inditment of the symposium idea, DocB or both. The naming of DocB and several other who are participating in the symposium casts a huge shadow of doubt over that speculation.

Another point that you have so carelessly overlooked is that I mentioned that several of the instructors who will be teaching at the symposium are the first Modern Arnis people under Professor Presas to be recognized by an independent body as skilled and notable martial artists. That occured in 1993 and 1994. If you know of others and particularly if you know of others who recieved these kinds of awards BEFORE 1993, please inform us.
Knowledge is a valuble thing to have on your side and I am ready to receive valid information even from you!

If the matter has already been discussed, I agree with you there is no need to revisit it as a thread. THis matter will pass away on its own. What has not been discussed is that there are some senior Modern Arnis instructors who are very skilled and recognized by people and groups outside of the fragmented self contained orgaizations that have emerged since the onset of Professor's illness and ultimate death.

A simple, short and positive statement such as Liam's will always be appricated and respected much more than the somewhat coarse and offensive manner that you have projected.

Lamont

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by bloodwood
No problem. I think we're on the same page on this one.

Dan

You are right, the symposium will be an excellent event, however norshadow is still out of line.

bloodwood

And exactly what line(s) should I be inside of?

Lamont

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just a comment....

Posts like the original here happen often. Old info is often 40+ pages back, and who checks everything first? I don't. Duplicate topics happen, and when we come across them, we just mention where the earlier topic was, and usually let them go.

So, I don't see Norshadows' posting to be out of line.

 

[Emptyglass]

Kaith:

Agreed. Regardless whether the topic has been discussed before, the information provided by Norshadow is accurate and it is quite possible that many new folks haven't seen it before. In any case, people should read the article and draw their own conclusions about the statements being made.

As for Dr. Barber being inducted in the WMA Hall of Fame, I know that is accurate as I was there in '93 and '94 if I remember correctly (it's getting a bit hazy now 10 years later).

Best Regards,

Richard Curren

 

[Liam_G]

I agree as well. I hope my intent in my initial response to norshadow was clear: I just hoped that people who hadn't seen the first thread could read through it, so that hopefully we could avoid repeating some of what went on there. Those who know me personally will know that I am definitely a supporter of Datu Worden. However, regardless of that, I just didn't want another thread to devolve into the sort of name calling that went on in that last thread. I hoped that we coud learn from that thread, and, as Kaith's sticky post in this forum states, keep this a place that the Professor would have loved to visit.

Sincerely,
Liam

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Just a comment....

Posts like the original here happen often. Old info is often 40+ pages back, and who checks everything first? I don't. Duplicate topics happen, and when we come across them, we just mention where the earlier topic was, and usually let them go.

So, I don't see Norshadows' posting to be out of line.

Thank you, Mr. Hubbard. To say more might inflame some people so I will just leave it at Thank You for your comments. It is difficult for people to be aware of every thing posted in the past.

 

[bloodwood]

In the original thread about the symposium I asked a simple question about conflicting dates and events being close together that might hinder attendance at the symposium. At no time have I been against the symposium. I believe it will be an excellent event and good for the art. I have nothing but respect for those teaching at the event so you can get off your soap box about what a terrible person I am. Maybe if you did your homework on Datu Worden's thread as well as my postings, all this could have been avoided. There may not be a bloodwood in the phone book but I am real and I will remain opinionated. By the way, in what phone book can we find norshadow1?

MT moderators

In my eagerness to stop an old thread that was troublesome I seemed to have started a new one. I will not persue this any longer. My appologies.

bloodwood

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I'm not in the line of fire on this one but apology accepted. Let's get onto some positive threads.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - I'm on Renegade's computer right at this moment. I am not Renegade. Honest.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Renegade

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - I'm on Renegade's computer right at this moment. I am not Renegade. Honest.

That's right. You spell better than me.

Tim

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by bloodwood
In the original thread about the symposium I asked a simple question about conflicting dates and events being close together that might hinder attendance at the symposium. At no time have I been against the symposium. I believe it will be an excellent event and good for the art. I have nothing but respect for those teaching at the event so you can get off your soap box about what a terrible person I am. Maybe if you did your homework on Datu Worden's thread as well as my postings, all this could have been avoided. There may not be a bloodwood in the phone book but I am real and I will remain opinionated. By the way, in what phone book can we find norshadow1?

MT moderators

In my eagerness to stop an old thread that was troublesome I seemed to have started a new one. I will not persue this any longer. My appologies.

bloodwood

Hey "Woodie",

I did my homework! Perhaps your opinioned nature has clouded your reasoning. It's ok by me. It is not your opinioned stances that bother me it was the negative and confrontational manner that you have used toward me and what I posted that drew my response to you. I have responded to Liam as well, but in an entirely different tone because he attempted inform me of a prior set of posts. I have to respect him and the approach that he took. When someone wants to know "who the hell I am" when they are hiding behind a screen name, I am not inclined to be considerate in my responses. Since you obvious see nothing wrong in your response to my post which did not contain a single negative statement, I will hereafter avoid replying to anything that you post because you want to lay all of the blame for your rude behavior elsewhere. Yes, I have read you statement to the moderators. Nice touch.

The Realfighters.com interview was new to me and I reported on it as a new piece of information. You raised the specter of negativism, not me. You went ballistic, not me. And you did not answer my question as to whether or not you know of any other Modern Arnis Instructors who were recognized by an outside group before 1993! That question is still on the board. Answer it in either the positive or negative based on the information that is available to you.

You wrote:

>There may not be a bloodwood in the phone book but I am real >and I will remain opinionated. By the way, in what phone book >can we find norshadow1?

I am not interested in phoning bloodwood, so a phone book citation is unnecessary. Drop the "1" and you have my real name. but you are still hiding behind a screen name. Email me at norshadow1@yahoo.com and you can contact me.

Regarding the symposium, I agree that it is a good idea and that it is good for the future of the art. Getting a number of excellent instructors together at on time and in one place can only have a positive effect overall. Since this particular event is cutting across sub-oganizational lines it is truely OPEN to all who wish to attend.

I read the following excerpt on another FMA forum and posted by a gentlman from Great Britian:

-------------- Start of Forwarded Message -----------------

From: Patrick Davies
Sent: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:23:05 +0100
Subject: tuppence worth

I can't afford to fly over from the UK and take in the Modern Arnis
Symposium but it does sound like a fantastic opportunity to experience things that some maybe take for granted. But with my training commitments and the amount I have to travel anyway to get instruction it isn't feasible. Opportunities like this should be appreciated.

I never really took that much interest in the prices. Why would I? I knew I couldn't go. However I have looked over the prices again and converted them in 'proper money' and when I take into account a choice of the Instructors present I'm actually realising what an incredible event the Modern Arnis camp are putting on.

While not having met any of the gentlemen involved in this, simply through years of witnessing correspondence I have always found the good Dr and Adam to be very courteous and we, I'm afraid, do get judged on how we behave and represent ourselves.

Pat Davies
www.amag.org.uk

------ End of Forwarded Message ------

I admit to editing out a paragraph at either end of the original message because it contained personal references to people on that forum and statements made then rebutted. Those statements were not relevant any part of this discussion thread.

Just re-read what Mr. Davies, wrote about the cost vs. what he deems to be "...an incredible event the Modern Arnis camp are putting on." Mr. Davies, is not a Modern Arnis practitioner. He is a JKD/Kali and Doce Pares player. He can see the value and potential of the symposium but perhaps some people (and I am excluding you from this reference Woodie) are too close to the forest to see the trees. Perhaps some peple are too involved in organizational loyalty and conflict to step back and clearly see the broader picture. Cooperation usually brings greater benefits than fraticidial competition.

I am looking forward to the symposim. There are a number of instructors whom I have not met or trained with and this is a great chance for me to see what others have to offer. In fact, I am going to go to ALL of the sessions being taught by the people that I have not met before because the symposium offers me that chance.

Lamont Norshadow

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by bloodwood
No problem. I think we're on the same page on this one.

Dan

You are right, the symposium will be an excellent event, however norshadow is still out of line.

bloodwood

Dear Bloodwood,

I have read through Norshadow's original post several times. Would you be so kind as to explain to me EXACTLY where, why and how Norshadow was out of line?

His post opens with the following statement:

{A Recent Datu Kelly Worden Interview
A friend of mine came across a recent interview with Datu Kelly Worden. I am guessing that it was done last month. It's quite long and he hits some topics pretty hard. I am including the site address so that you can read it for yourselves.

http://www.realfighting.com/1102/KwordenART.html

Here are some excepts that should convey a sense of what Datu Worden has saying to the interviewer. The RF refers to the term Real Fighter, the name of the website.}

Where is the offensive thing that he has said or done given the time frame mentioned from his opening paragraph?

I am happy to read that you believe that the Symposium will be an excellent event. Each of the instructors have indicated that they are looking forward to working with learning from several other instructors. That is within the meaning of both words "symposium" and exchange.

I am not trying to start a fight. I just do not see where there was anything said that required anyone to get hot and bothered about. I am seeking clarity on this matter.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[bloodwood]

Just trying to avoid a troublesome thread from the past being thrown back into the mix.

In my eagerness to stop an old thread that was troublesome I seemed to have started a new one. I will not persue this any longer. My appologies.

Bloodwood