100,000 dead in Iraq...

psi_radar

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Gray Phoenix said:
I had a political rant all typed up. I then realized what this is about...
How many lives is our security worth? I do not believe that someone who wants to kill another can be reasoned with, or bargained with, but am I willing to kill that person to prevent murder. How about those who protect the would be murder, or the people who are around him?

A terrorist who has surrounded himself with children is free to go? Should we try to stop him? If we could, how many dead children are acceptable? If the answer is zero, then we have now found a way for evil to protect itself.

If a terrorist really wanted to blow up a building, he can now pack a van full of explosives and kidnapped children and drive to his destination unhindered with full advertisements.

I AM NOT advocating the random slaughter of children, however, there are those that dont mind it. Our enemies know of our technological advantages, so is it not logical for them to avoid our technology and attack our hearts?

So again I ask the question, how many children are we as a nation willing to kill?

Gray Phoenix, I think you might be accepting the commonly produced propoganda of this administration. We're talking about Iraq here. The evidence we have uncovered shows no link of Iraqi-supported anti-American terrorism before we invaded. That's changed now, of course. The bombings and civilian deaths fed the insurgency and support of terrorism there.

Upnorth had a great list of questions a little while back to which I'd like to add another:

To thwart terrorism, have we made any effort to understand and mitigate the source of anti-american sentiment in the middle east?
 

Rich Parsons

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psi_radar said:
Upnorth had a great list of questions a little while back to which I'd like to add another:

To thwart terrorism, have we made any effort to understand and mitigate the source of anti-american sentiment in the middle east?


Hmmm, one might say yes it has been done. If you realize the the Christian fundelmentalist and Evangelists that buy radio time and send out messages to the unbeleivers that they are wrong. Then one might be able to say that these groups have identified a soft spot and trying to work it.

Yet, religous tolerence is a major part of the issue, the other is culture survival, where the western culture shows fast cars and loud music, and such.
Now for many they see the western movie making industry as a direct reflection of the culture that is trying to steal their children away. Where the police are corrupt except for one guy who stands alone to fight the wrongs and sometimes survives to fight again in the sequeal. They see drug dealers, and sex, and alcohol and other issues that they find not suitable for general public discussion or viewing. Yet the bright lights and the trying to be cool, the children do what is forbidden to them, just as the children in the USSR all wanted blue jeans and rock and roll music to rebel and be different, just like the children here who grow long hair for males or shirt / shaved hair for female, and or face piercings with wild hair colors to shock those around them. It is forbidden just as sex is a forbidden taboo her in our culture for children, but is one of the major selling points to magizines and TV shows and ....

So, I see the issue as three points that need to be resolved:

1) Religous tolerance with people stop telling everyone they are wrong.

2) Allowing their culture to continue to grow at its own pace, and not to try to break into this market, just to make a buck.

3) That culture needs to educate their children about their beliefs and values and the fears of the parents. In countries where upon sex education is taught at an early age and is not considered a taboo, then one finds (* From memory about 10+ years ago *) that the young adults wait longer before having sex, as they are not rebelling, but instead making educated decisions.

I see no solution to any of these three issues that would work other than a miracle. ;)
 

psi_radar

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Rich Parsons said:
Hmmm, one might say yes it has been done. If you realize the the Christian fundelmentalist and Evangelists that buy radio time and send out messages to the unbeleivers that they are wrong. Then one might be able to say that these groups have identified a soft spot and trying to work it.

Yet, religous tolerence is a major part of the issue, the other is culture survival, where the western culture shows fast cars and loud music, and such.
Now for many they see the western movie making industry as a direct reflection of the culture that is trying to steal their children away. Where the police are corrupt except for one guy who stands alone to fight the wrongs and sometimes survives to fight again in the sequeal. They see drug dealers, and sex, and alcohol and other issues that they find not suitable for general public discussion or viewing. Yet the bright lights and the trying to be cool, the children do what is forbidden to them, just as the children in the USSR all wanted blue jeans and rock and roll music to rebel and be different, just like the children here who grow long hair for males or shirt / shaved hair for female, and or face piercings with wild hair colors to shock those around them. It is forbidden just as sex is a forbidden taboo her in our culture for children, but is one of the major selling points to magizines and TV shows and ....

So, I see the issue as three points that need to be resolved:

1) Religous tolerance with people stop telling everyone they are wrong.

2) Allowing their culture to continue to grow at its own pace, and not to try to break into this market, just to make a buck.

3) That culture needs to educate their children about their beliefs and values and the fears of the parents. In countries where upon sex education is taught at an early age and is not considered a taboo, then one finds (* From memory about 10+ years ago *) that the young adults wait longer before having sex, as they are not rebelling, but instead making educated decisions.

I see no solution to any of these three issues that would work other than a miracle. ;)

Besides the cultural impacts of "westernization," a single word which I will use to deftly summarize all your arguments ;), I think our foreign policy in the area has an impact at least as impressive as the MTV analogs out there. Granted, though rock and roll and mini-skirts do have an almost irresistable pull that is not easily thwarted on any human youth, there is room to shift our foreign policy slightly to more respectfully cope with matters in the region.
 
A

AnimEdge

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Regardless, I have a few questions...

1. Is it okay to steal? How about kill?
When it is needed

2. When is violence appropriate? How about stealing?
When it is needed

3. Was Iraq a threat to our country?
Iraq in itself? No, A group or so in it? Yes

4. Did we exhaust all peaceful options?
Doubt It

5. Was exhausting all peaceful options even in the administrations radar screen?
Exhausting Some yes, but doubt all

6. Do you think the invasion of Iraq gives us a strategic edge in the middle east?
If when its all done they generaly like us and become allies then yes, if they hate us and so on then it will probly be the same as with the old iraq

7. What does "Reforming Islam by Force" sound like to you?
a bit tricky, Islam Peaple? Religion? Country?

8. Are these dead children worth all of this????????????????
I agree with Grey on this one

9. To thwart terrorism, have we made any effort to understand and mitigate the source of anti-american sentiment in the middle east?
If you mean We as in the whole country then no, im sure most people here couldnt care less about what they think about us, i dont care what they think of us, and maybe thats the problem, is that we dont care, but i dont care that i dont care, if that makes since. Can't please every one all the time, But im sure people have, Religionish People im sure have tryed to 'convert' them but they try to do that with everyone, How well though can we mitigate them anyhow? Didnt we try that with the Indians(way back when) and eventually just gave up? I mean it has been said that they have been told if they kill themselfs in the name of there God they will go to heaven to 70(or what is 60?) Virgins so how can you top that eh?

Yay I have 2 Neg Marks starting the first post :p one actually made a comment and i dont know who the other is woot

We must all remeber this is a *new* type of war, this isnt like all the others where you can tell whos who by there uniform, this is a war with cheap carbomb shots, suicide bombings, beheadings and so on
 

michaeledward

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AnimEdge said:
We must all remeber this is a *new* type of war, this isnt like all the others where you can tell whos who by there uniform, this is a war with cheap carbomb shots, suicide bombings, beheadings and so on
Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
The Preacher knew a thing or two about man-kind (or man-not-so-kind). There is nothing *new* about this type of war. People use the tools at hand to kill other people. This type of thing has, no doubt, been going on for millions of years. The technology may be different, but the causes, and effects are the same.
 
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