$100.00 dollar book.

[white belt]

I bought a limited edition copy of "GOJU RYU KARATE DO KYOHAN" by Gogen "The Cat" Yamaguchi. I have number 1192 of the 2000 copies printed. A certificate comes with the book stating the limited edition copy number. The book is 330 pages. I am quite pleased with the structure of material. The basic techniques are concentrated on somewhat and there are some interesting thoughts on "Do" in general. Any collectors out there with a critique or comparison to another work?

white belt

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by white belt
I bought a limited edition copy of "GOJU RYU KARATE DO KYOHAN" by Gogen "The Cat" Yamaguchi. I have number 1192 of the 2000 copies printed. A certificate comes with the book stating the limited edition copy number. The book is 330 pages. I am quite pleased with the structure of material. The basic techniques are concentrated on somewhat and there are some interesting thoughts on "Do" in general. Any collectors out there with a critique or comparison to another work?

white belt

You may want to read several of my post here about Yamaguchi

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6041&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

If you want to collect rare karate books you may want to buy the Uechi Ryu "Blue Book" ....very rare, very expensive.

 

[white belt]

So, Gogen was a fraud in your opinion?

white belt

 

[RyuShiKan]

Let's just say he claimed things that weren't always true.

 

[Martin h]

Gogen was very highly respected in japanese karate, and very little in okinawan karate.
Nevertheless, I own a copy of the $100.00 book (no 0997) and I concider it a great book (expensive but great). It is clearly illustrated and easy to follow -unlike several of other books by the old masters.

It is a especialy interesting book for me as a kyokushin student, to look at the striking similarities between kyokushin and the goju it in part was based on.

Gogen may have played a bit with the truth on occation, but he was hardly the only one of the old masters who did that. His karate was very good. Not identical to okinawan goju, but good.

If you can find them, I recomend you to read "What is karate", "This is karate" and "Advanced karate" (esp the last two), by Masutatsu "Mas" Oyama. Unfortunaly all of them are rare and expensive.

"Tote-jutsu" by Funakoshi and "Okinawan Kempo" by Choki Motobu are also good, but in my opinion they are not as clearly structured, and not nearly as well illustrated. Mostly because they are much older, but still...
Never seen the "blue book" of Kanei Uechi, but now I will look for it.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Martin h
Gogen was very highly respected in japanese karate, and very little in okinawan karate.

That point is debatable.



Nevertheless, I own a copy of the $100.00 book (no 0997) and I concider it a great book (expensive but great). It is clearly illustrated and easy to follow -unlike several of other books by the old masters.

It is a especialy interesting book for me as a kyokushin student, to look at the striking similarities between kyokushin and the goju it in part was based on.

Originally posted by Martin h
Gogen may have played a bit with the truth on occation, but he was hardly the only one of the old masters who did that.

Gogen didn’t play with the truth he fabricated lies………there is a difference between expanding on an actually event and making one up.

Originally posted by Martin h
His karate was very good. Not identical to okinawan goju, but good.

Again, debatable.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Martin h

"Tote-jutsu" by Funakoshi and "Okinawan Kempo" by Choki Motobu are also good, but in my opinion they are not as clearly structured, and not nearly as well illustrated. Mostly because they are much older, but still...

From an investment stand point those two books (original versions) are worth more than 100 books by gogen or oyama.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
From an investment stand point those two books (original versions) are worth more than 100 books by gogen or oyama.

I still have not seen anything in print bad about the "Cat." In fact his son Gosei has an article in one of the magazines out and everything seemed positive. Wouldn't they have grilled him about whatever it is that was bad or wrong?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
I still have not seen anything in print bad about the "Cat." In fact his son Gosei has an article in one of the magazines out and everything seemed positive. Wouldn't they have grilled him about whatever it is that was bad or wrong?

Many people don’t know the truth or want to disbelieve some of the things about Gogen.

I doubt seriously if any magazine would “grill” any teacher.
For starters they would risk a liable suit and secondly they can sell more magazines off of dead legends than dead fakes.

 

[white belt]

Interesting posts!

I have been through most of the book and find it enjoyable. I am a TKD Instructor and it is interesting to see the commonalities across the arts.

white belt

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Many people don’t know the truth or want to disbelieve some of the things about Gogen.

I doubt seriously if any magazine would “grill” any teacher.
For starters they would risk a liable suit and secondly they can sell more magazines off of dead legends than dead fakes.

Well could you direct me somewhere that I can get some of this info., if you don't want to post it, you could email it.

Heres some quotes from Gosei:

"My father loved combat. He was the first to teach free combat in Karate. Before him nobady did. He practiced it and he taught it. They did not practice free kumite in Okinawa, but he did".

"My father changed many things. In Okinawa you had to learn by yourself. In Japan, on the other hand, you learn in groups, in schools. My father changed the educational system for schools, universities...for big groups".

"My father was very famous and Karate practioners from all over the world came to the dojo. I was the masters son and I remember I had to fight them all".

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
Well could you direct me somewhere that I can get some of this info., if you don't want to post it, you could email it.

Heres some quotes from Gosei:

"My father loved combat. He was the first to teach free combat in Karate. Before him nobady did. He practiced it and he taught it. They did not practice free kumite in Okinawa, but he did".

Here is a perfect example.
Taira Shinken, Motobu Choki, Nakamura Shigeru all did free kumite long before Yamaguchi Gogen.

Originally posted by akja
"My father changed many things. In Okinawa you had to learn by yourself. In Japan, on the other hand, you learn in groups, in schools. My father changed the educational system for schools, universities...for big groups".

Funakoshi was responsible for most changes made in the schools and Universities in Japan not Yamaguchi.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Here is a perfect example.
Taira Shinken, Motobu Choki, Nakamura Shigeru all did free kumite long before Yamaguchi Gogen.




Funakoshi was responsible for most changes made in the schools and Universities in Japan not Yamaguchi.

I figured that would get you talking. I'll read the rest of the article.