Yep, here it comes - gun control lies front and center

[Haakon]

What are the numbers where a gun has actually helped? ...
So, how often does a personal firearm help?

And before I get jumped, I'm not saying ban guns. I am reacting strictly to Bill's argument that guns have a negative influence on situations in very few actual instances. I'm simply asking whether the opposite is true. Are guns ever or often a positive influence?

I'm also genuinely asking the question. It's not intended to be rhetorical or imply that they never help. Simply put, are there statistics? If so, I've never seen them.

Oh, and I'm also talking about on the street situations, not home invasion. Those are, in my mind, cmopletely different animals.

Depending on if you believe the study or not, guns are used millions of times a year to prevent violence.
http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

If you exclude suicide firearm deaths that means guns are used to save life and limb about 170x more often than people are killed by them.

The people who want to ban guns don't believe any of these studies at all, of course those people have also been known to count people up to age 24 as "children" to skew their statistics.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I regularly get visits from bears and mountain lions-bears on my front porch-really!

Just yesterday, I shot a mountain lion in my pajamas...

 

[rframe]

How in the hell do you think almost every other country in the world copes without handguns?

Cope without? They dont, they all have them. But those that dont value the concept of liberty (allowing individuals the choice to legally use inanimate amoral objects and hold them responsible for their choices) simply make it a crime to be a gun owner so that the only people who own guns are criminals... brilliant solution.

Really, you're not schooling anyone.

 

[Haakon]

I regularly get visits from bears and mountain lions-bears on my front porch-really!

Me too, I haven't seen a mountain lion (neighbor has though) but it's common to have bears in the yard and while black bears are usually pretty timid they aren't all the time.
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/sep/18/man-at-harborview-after-bear-attack-near-lake/

 

[Big Don]

"Northern" Southern.

You forgot Country Western and Eastern Western...

 

[Big Don]

Robin, just a quick reminder that a lot of the responders in this thread are either serving or ex police officers and army/marines

None of those nancy boy sailors or air farcemen...

 

[Big Don]

I've shot deer, rabbits, squirrels and coyote with a handgun.

I wouldn't dream of using anything else for feral hog, except perhaps a knife or bow-just a little more sporting that way....:lol:

My wife and I also carry pistols in the field against bears and mountain lions-not that I'd ever enjoy killing a bear,nor am i likely to even see the mountain lion that decides I look tasty. Being able to carry concealed also makes us less off-putting to people we might encounter on the trail....

Buddy of mine hunts wild boar with a 10 inch knife, but, he carries a 1911 while doing so...
BTW, the whole hunting big mean wild boars with knives is friggin NUTS!

 

[Big Don]

I regularly get visits from bears and mountain lions-bears on my front porch-really!

If it is on your porch, shooting it wouldn't be poaching, would it?
How does mountain lion taste?

 

[Big Don]

Just yesterday, I shot a mountain lion in my pajamas...

How it got in your pajamas we'll never know

 

[jks9199]

My answer to both your points is that your country is too far gone, firearms are way too ingrained into your culture for it to ever find a serious solution. That's why hundreds of people will wrongly lose there lives every year, because whether legally or illegally, there are too many guns too easily attainable in the US.

But I thought culture wasn't an answer...

Something to remember is that we're all discussing this from an emotional point of view at least as much as a logical one -- and the emotional POV tends to overwhelm the logical.

I mentioned homogeneity earlier. I know several current or recently retired British law enforcement officers, including those on the gun response units. (Sorry; the proper name for those units escapes me at the moment.) There's a lot of common experiences -- but I don't think any of us think that we could do the job in our respective jurisdictions the same way it's done in the other. I know; kind of a confusing statement. In the English system, there's currently enough social pressure to really allow the cops there to do things unarmed; we don't have that here. Social pressure here in the States is almost towards rebellion and pushing back. I think if you put three Brits together, they'd automatically form a line or queue... Put three people from the US together, and I think their instinct would be towards a mob.

Guns are here. Guns are part of our culture and society, in big ways and small ways. We can't make them go away with laws. Maybe one day we'll all "grow up" and leave violence behind... I don't know. But until we all do -- cops here will need guns. And people will have the right to have guns of their own to protect themselves when the cops can't be there.

 

[mastercole]

Me, I live in the Unites States of America (USA). I have carried a handgun since I was a child, I carry one today, everywhere I go. It's very natural to have one on me at all times. It's been that way in my family for hundreds of years.

As far as taking the guns away from Americans, that will never happen. Owning guns and carrying guns is ingrained in the fabric of who we are and what we are. Bottom line is that no one will ever take our guns away from us, but, as in the past, some may die trying.

 

[jks9199]

And I soooo agree with this-far too many people purchase a firearm "for protection" and don't get proper-and widely available-training.

This -- I agree with. I'd personally like to see a mandatory safety course (BRIEF! -- like an hour or two) before you can make your first purchase (or maybe just accept delivery) of a gun -- or maybe just for ammo purchases, since without ammo, a gun is just a paperweight. More extensive courses, like NRA training classes, hunter safety classes, police/military firearms instruction, or even Boy Scout/Girl Scout merit badges, if you can document it, would also satisfy and eliminate that requirement. I'm really talking grinding in the Cardinal Rules of Firearm Safety, and home safety issues, along with what to do if the gun gets lost or stolen.

 

[jks9199]

The fact is, we in the USA have had a culture of private gun ownership since dot. There is literally no way to collect up all the guns. That leaves the option of having armed criminals and armed citizens, or armed criminals and disarmed citizens. There is no scenario under which both would be disarmed. So the only question is whether or not the victims will be permitted to defend themselves.

Just an aside... there is literally no way to round up all of the guns short of some sort of enforced, house to house, bush to bush (literally; I can't tell you how many guns are hidden, either by those who are afraid of their seizure, or those who can't legally possess them) search. Registration is far from total; in Virginia, you don't have to register handguns or rifles unless the feds demand it.

 

[jks9199]

Just yesterday, I shot a mountain lion in my pajamas...

Why, whatever was the mountain lion doing in your pajamas? (I ask, obligatorily...)

 

[jks9199]

You forgot Country Western and Eastern Western...

Hey, there are significant differences up here in Virginia -- especially close to MD -- versus somewhere like South Carolina or Georgia. Hell, Florida could probably be considered a culture unto itself...

 

[Big Don]

Hey, there are significant differences up here in Virginia -- especially close to MD

That would be the Washington D.C. area? It should be a region unto itself, jackassarea...

 

[Big Don]

Bank of America is making a political statement by dropping a firearms company...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-bank-of-america-reportedly-drops-gun-company-for-political-reasons/

That is short sighted, (Gun pun intended) gun companies are about the only companies that have flourished under Obama...

 

[WC_lun]

I see both sides of the fence when it comes to gun ownership. I do not have an issue with responsible gun owners and do not think thier right to own a gun should be taken away. However, there are many gun owners that are not responsible. For every story of a responsible gun owner protecting himself/herself and others from criminals, we see stories of people being hurt or killed through the irresponsible acts of other gun owners. In good concious I cannot say the responsible good owner should lose his right to gun ownership over the stupidity of other gun owners, but at the same time the innocent should not have to suffer because of those that are stupid.

That means there needs to be some common sense regulations, that both gun owners and non-owners can agree upon. Perhaps a good start would be closing some of the loop holes in purchasing guns, such as flea market or gun show type events. Hand guns are made for one purpose, killing of human beings. That is fine if in self defence, but that is a huge responsibility to entrust to a person without giving them any training. So perhaps a mandatory class of some sort would reduce some issues, like accidental shootings or kids with access to guns. Maybe a law restricting gun ownership of people who have shown an inability to possess a gun responsably. I don't mean those committing crimes neccesarily. We already have those laws, but if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the cofee table so your 6 year old has access to it, you no longer get to own a gun.

The US has the highest murder rate out of all compatable industrialised nations. In part, this is due to easy access of guns, legal or otherwise. It is also true that we have a higher incident of criminals getting the tables turned on them through home owner gun use. Gun ownership is a right, though hands guns were not specifically what the founders were referring to. For either side of the debate to dismiss the importance of these things is silly and non-productive. Those against guns need to realise that many gun owners are responsible and SAFE, doing nothing wrong and guns are not going away. Those that are pro gun need to realise that the right to gun ownership does not trump the rights of people to feel safe in thier own nieghborhoods.

 

[Buka]

Bank of America is making a political statement by dropping a firearms company...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-bank-of-america-reportedly-drops-gun-company-for-political-reasons/

Do NOT, under any circumstances, believe ANYTHING said by Bank of America. EVER.

 

[decepticon]

That means there needs to be some common sense regulations, that both gun owners and non-owners can agree upon. Perhaps a good start would be closing some of the loop holes in purchasing guns, such as flea market or gun show type events.

I went to a large fleamarket last weekend. When we first turned the corner and entered the grounds, I saw two rather grungy guys pulling a red kids' wagon with the wooden slat sides. About 25 gun barrels were sticking out of it. A hand lettered sign hung on the side of the wagon that read, "Cheep guns for sale". Absolutely no paperwork required. Also a buyer beware situation - I have no idea whether the guns were legally owned by the sellers or whether they were in good working order.

I live in a rural area. We use our guns as tools - to keep predators from eating our livestock, to kill animals that we will be eating, or for self protection. It generally takes law enforcement at least 30 minutes to respond to a call from my area. I always carry a handgun when hiking in the woods due to the increasing numbers of bears and mountain lions, or to euthanize the occasional injured wild animal I come across. I use a rifle for predator control. I use a shotgun for hunting. I don't know if laws that are made to suit an urban environment would work out here, and I imagine what we need wouldn't be helpful there.