Yep, here it comes - gun control lies front and center

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Bill Mattocks, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Haakon

    Haakon Blue Belt

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    Depending on if you believe the study or not, guns are used millions of times a year to prevent violence.
    http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

    If you exclude suicide firearm deaths that means guns are used to save life and limb about 170x more often than people are killed by them.

    The people who want to ban guns don't believe any of these studies at all, of course those people have also been known to count people up to age 24 as "children" to skew their statistics.
     
  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just yesterday, I shot a mountain lion in my pajamas...
     
  3. rframe

    rframe Green Belt

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    Cope without? They dont, they all have them. But those that dont value the concept of liberty (allowing individuals the choice to legally use inanimate amoral objects and hold them responsible for their choices) simply make it a crime to be a gun owner so that the only people who own guns are criminals... brilliant solution.

    Really, you're not schooling anyone.
     
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  4. Haakon

    Haakon Blue Belt

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  5. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    You forgot Country Western and Eastern Western...
     
  6. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    None of those nancy boy sailors or air farcemen... :p
     
  7. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    Buddy of mine hunts wild boar with a 10 inch knife, but, he carries a 1911 while doing so...
    BTW, the whole hunting big mean wild boars with knives is friggin NUTS!
     
  8. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    If it is on your porch, shooting it wouldn't be poaching, would it?
    How does mountain lion taste?
     
  9. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    How it got in your pajamas we'll never know :p
     
  10. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    But I thought culture wasn't an answer... :D

    Something to remember is that we're all discussing this from an emotional point of view at least as much as a logical one -- and the emotional POV tends to overwhelm the logical.

    I mentioned homogeneity earlier. I know several current or recently retired British law enforcement officers, including those on the gun response units. (Sorry; the proper name for those units escapes me at the moment.) There's a lot of common experiences -- but I don't think any of us think that we could do the job in our respective jurisdictions the same way it's done in the other. I know; kind of a confusing statement. In the English system, there's currently enough social pressure to really allow the cops there to do things unarmed; we don't have that here. Social pressure here in the States is almost towards rebellion and pushing back. I think if you put three Brits together, they'd automatically form a line or queue... Put three people from the US together, and I think their instinct would be towards a mob.

    Guns are here. Guns are part of our culture and society, in big ways and small ways. We can't make them go away with laws. Maybe one day we'll all "grow up" and leave violence behind... I don't know. But until we all do -- cops here will need guns. And people will have the right to have guns of their own to protect themselves when the cops can't be there.
     
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  11. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    Me, I live in the Unites States of America (USA). I have carried a handgun since I was a child, I carry one today, everywhere I go. It's very natural to have one on me at all times. It's been that way in my family for hundreds of years.

    As far as taking the guns away from Americans, that will never happen. Owning guns and carrying guns is ingrained in the fabric of who we are and what we are. Bottom line is that no one will ever take our guns away from us, but, as in the past, some may die trying.
     
  12. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    This -- I agree with. I'd personally like to see a mandatory safety course (BRIEF! -- like an hour or two) before you can make your first purchase (or maybe just accept delivery) of a gun -- or maybe just for ammo purchases, since without ammo, a gun is just a paperweight. More extensive courses, like NRA training classes, hunter safety classes, police/military firearms instruction, or even Boy Scout/Girl Scout merit badges, if you can document it, would also satisfy and eliminate that requirement. I'm really talking grinding in the Cardinal Rules of Firearm Safety, and home safety issues, along with what to do if the gun gets lost or stolen.
     
  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Just an aside... there is literally no way to round up all of the guns short of some sort of enforced, house to house, bush to bush (literally; I can't tell you how many guns are hidden, either by those who are afraid of their seizure, or those who can't legally possess them) search. Registration is far from total; in Virginia, you don't have to register handguns or rifles unless the feds demand it.
     
  14. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Why, whatever was the mountain lion doing in your pajamas? (I ask, obligatorily...)
     
  15. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey, there are significant differences up here in Virginia -- especially close to MD -- versus somewhere like South Carolina or Georgia. Hell, Florida could probably be considered a culture unto itself...
     
  16. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    That would be the Washington D.C. area? It should be a region unto itself, jackassarea...
     
  17. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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  18. WC_lun

    WC_lun Senior Master

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    I see both sides of the fence when it comes to gun ownership. I do not have an issue with responsible gun owners and do not think thier right to own a gun should be taken away. However, there are many gun owners that are not responsible. For every story of a responsible gun owner protecting himself/herself and others from criminals, we see stories of people being hurt or killed through the irresponsible acts of other gun owners. In good concious I cannot say the responsible good owner should lose his right to gun ownership over the stupidity of other gun owners, but at the same time the innocent should not have to suffer because of those that are stupid.

    That means there needs to be some common sense regulations, that both gun owners and non-owners can agree upon. Perhaps a good start would be closing some of the loop holes in purchasing guns, such as flea market or gun show type events. Hand guns are made for one purpose, killing of human beings. That is fine if in self defence, but that is a huge responsibility to entrust to a person without giving them any training. So perhaps a mandatory class of some sort would reduce some issues, like accidental shootings or kids with access to guns. Maybe a law restricting gun ownership of people who have shown an inability to possess a gun responsably. I don't mean those committing crimes neccesarily. We already have those laws, but if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the cofee table so your 6 year old has access to it, you no longer get to own a gun.

    The US has the highest murder rate out of all compatable industrialised nations. In part, this is due to easy access of guns, legal or otherwise. It is also true that we have a higher incident of criminals getting the tables turned on them through home owner gun use. Gun ownership is a right, though hands guns were not specifically what the founders were referring to. For either side of the debate to dismiss the importance of these things is silly and non-productive. Those against guns need to realise that many gun owners are responsible and SAFE, doing nothing wrong and guns are not going away. Those that are pro gun need to realise that the right to gun ownership does not trump the rights of people to feel safe in thier own nieghborhoods.
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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  20. decepticon

    decepticon Green Belt

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    I went to a large fleamarket last weekend. When we first turned the corner and entered the grounds, I saw two rather grungy guys pulling a red kids' wagon with the wooden slat sides. About 25 gun barrels were sticking out of it. A hand lettered sign hung on the side of the wagon that read, "Cheep guns for sale". Absolutely no paperwork required. Also a buyer beware situation - I have no idea whether the guns were legally owned by the sellers or whether they were in good working order.

    I live in a rural area. We use our guns as tools - to keep predators from eating our livestock, to kill animals that we will be eating, or for self protection. It generally takes law enforcement at least 30 minutes to respond to a call from my area. I always carry a handgun when hiking in the woods due to the increasing numbers of bears and mountain lions, or to euthanize the occasional injured wild animal I come across. I use a rifle for predator control. I use a shotgun for hunting. I don't know if laws that are made to suit an urban environment would work out here, and I imagine what we need wouldn't be helpful there.123
     

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