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The Chinese written characters for Yee Chuan Tao literally translates as "One Fist Way" and can also mean "The First Martial Way". Chi Gung is embodied as a part of this system. In earlier postings, there were questions regarding the "legitimacy" of Yee Chung Tao. Just because most CMA practitioners, even Chinese, have not heard of it means nothing. If you ask an elderly CMA practitioner who is at least seventies of age they may have heard of it. Many Chinese "Gar" (means family) style arts were lost during the Communist Cultural Revolution Years. All persons of professional or martial background were killed or those that could, went underground. Many fled the country to Taiwan (my birthplace). There are many, many artifacts, records lost (destroyed) during this time. Even the written word in China were simplified due to lost of professional educators. Who can teach the masses on a language that consist of thousands of characters? In view of all this, it is not inconceivable that Yee Chuan Tao became an undocumented art. (It is not "lost" since we are now discussing it) It was first created by Taoists as a means to protect themselves. Taoism is a word that today is misinterpreted with a religious connotation. Unlike Shaolin, Yee Chuan Tao is not based on a religion. There have also been several times in which Chi Gung was put underground by Taoists, when it reached the point when it could become a cult; this action can attest to the seriousness and down to earth nature of Taoist. Furthermore, Chi Gung was banned several times in Chinese history, the last one during the Cultural Revolution: it represented one of the "old" things to be eliminated. Nevertheless, during the mid '50s, the same Chinese government had chosen Chi Gung, along with Tai Chi, as official methods for prevention and treatment of many illnesses: Chi Gung could be practiced at home and was also inexpensive. In later years the Chinese government declared the "officially approved" Chi Gung systems, in the attempt to control its diffusion.
There are hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of martial arts systems. Can a handful of martial artists here name all the names of the martial arts systems in the world? Can a handful of martial artists here in this thread determine the "legitimacy" of an ancient art form when they cannot even tell me how many existing Chinese dialects there are in China? Have the modern day Chinese Martial Artists become so arrogant that they think they can determine a "legitimacy" of an art they don't understand and have never experienced for themselves? I hope not for the sake of martial arts! You cannot judge a system by how many forms it has, or how it is rooted in stances by looking at an online video of a flowing, moving form that is alive. If I was in a fight, I certainly would not root long but for the amount of time needed to redirected my opponent's force by changing into another stance. As far as lineage goes, it is important in traditional standards in a an established traditional art like Wing Chun or Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, etc. It shows how one's martial training background may be true to the original method of the founder. Even then, I have seen many school's forms looking very different from another school's form even though it's the same form name. Does that mean one school is not as good or is wrong in their teaching? No, it is the interpretation of the teacher (Sifu, Sensi, etc). That is the nature of evolution of the arts. What is now "traditional" was not traditional in the beginning. Someone had to use methods or forms to develop a standard way to teach, for ease of teaching. The Taoist uses no forms nor do they believed in writings (since forms create limits), any "forms" you see now are the evolution of what was then a set of movements practiced over and over again passed on by students.
Quoting RHD: I'm sure that Mr. Vendrell also has very little to do with anyone else in the Chinese Martial arts community. Why would that be I wonder...If he does, it would be very nice to hear from them. I won;t hold my breath though, because I truly believe that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck....its probably a duck
Do you think that your thread merits the attention of the Chinese Community? Traditional Chinese are (normally) very composed, inward people - speak little, pay little attention to trivial matters, try to mind their own business, try not to offend if possible. I am not traditional (I guess) having been in America for more than half my life. I grew up in Hong Kong and did Gung Fu with my grandfather informally, in who knows what (or cares) style. It was not like what is being taught now. Style name was not important to him. He just did what he was taught. This was when Bruce Lee was still living in Hong Kong and fighting his own "traditional" vs his own style battles with the Chinese practitioners there. When I first met Grandmaster Mike Vendrell, I was also skeptical at first but after seeing him teach and do Yee Chuan Tao Gung Fu, I was reminded of how the art looked and feel when I was training with my Grandfather. I knew the art was for real and after checking into his background, I too (as Grappling Mandala did), came to find that this man is no ordinary man. He has done so much that no ordinary guy could have done but that is Michael Vendrell.
Even though Sigung Vendrell tries to stay out of the limelight, Kung Fu Magazine (April 1993 issue) wrote an article on on him. David Carradine has many books published in which he has mentioned Vendrell. I quote from The Spirit of Shaolin, by David Carradine in which he spoke of Vendrell:
"...Throughout the movie I studied with Mike informally. His coaching was almost always in sparring. He would match his style with mine, work at my level of proficiency, then gradually lift me to higher levels, changing styles rapidly and talking all the while --coaxing, teasing, threatening, praising, probing, story telling, philosophizing...
...He has healing hands and is adept at joint manipulation, reflexology, massage and other curative therapies, such as a passive skeletal alignment similar to the "Alexander technique", and a "gong" therapy in which differently pitched massive bronze bells are placed around the subject's body and struck alternately in patterns and cycles designed to clear blockage and align the chi. The amazing thing about all this is that is works. If this is hard to believe, you've got Mike exactly; hard to believe! "
Gene LeBelle speaks very highly of Vendrell. He even named a move "The Vendrell Vice" after him. If you are a serious martial artist (or are old enough to remember), you should have heard of Gene LeBelle. He is famous in the Judo world on a highly documented, publicized event when he took on a challenge from the Boxing World back in the days of "whose martial art is the best," a boxer against a martial artist. It was after this that Gene became famous doing movies - as some of your postings imply you are too young to know. If you are a serious martial artist, you should be exposed to other arts and know of some other arts besides your own. After all, if you ever had to go against someone with another martial background, then you would have an advantage if you know how their system works since it will determine how they would fight you.
There is a saying, "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time."
Michael Vendrell did all these things and more. So he was in show business. Do you think he can fool all of Hollywood? For 30 years? I think not! He was one of the most sought-after stuntman and stunt coordinator in Hollywood and holds many credits in major movie releases. Being a stuntman is not like being an actor. You actually have to do the moves and make the actors look good. There is no faking it. Grandmaster Vendrell has trained many famous actors, don't you think they would have checked him out first?? Famous personalities have a way of seeking out the best for personal training. Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee is in show business, could they be frauds? Bruce Lee created his own system and also trained many famous actors. Is that considered as traditional CMA?
Grandmaster Michael Vendrell is very well-respected among the Chinese communities in the US as well as Canada. You cannot see in the video clip on his website the parts that were cut out. I have seen the original video, it is a large celebration of a Canadian Chinese community in Toronto which he was invited to do a demonstration. He was introduced (in Chinese) as an "accomplished Gung Fu Grandmaster". (BTW: he never insists on being called a grandmaster (Sigung) but just be referred to as Sifu. I insist on calling him one because that is truly what he is, a Grandmaster. There is no shame in being called a Sigong when one has demonstrated profound knowledge and skill, living up to the name as he has done.
Some of the postings seems to be stuck on the one line, single paragraph mentioned on his website of being " the undefeated survivor of "underground" no holds barred matches". If you were living in Chinatown L.A. in the 70's (ask any Chinese who is now 60 or older and was living there during that time period), then you would know these matches exist, are underground, and the price of loosing may be death or being crippled for life (so you think it's only in the movies, huh?). The only rule is to win. Chinese underground society are not nice people. Today's so-called "No-holds barred" matches are a cake-walk, no comparison to this kind of thing. I believe it is important to mention the "cage" fighting bit because it shows that Yee Chung Tao Gung Fu does work for Grandmaster Vendrell. If it has kept him alive in something as brutal as that, it will work for anyone, that it is an effective system of self-defense. aNadia is correct, most his matches lasted about 15 seconds. Also note that it read survivor, that didn't mean that he never got hurt or was untouched by the opponent.
Yee Chuan Tao is a classical art not a traditional art. It was developed by the Taoist; there is no single "founder," but was developed by groups of people. Taoism is the most ancient system of knowledge on earth, probably even preceding the traditions of Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, India and Greece. It began over 6000 years ago and Chi Gung (and Nei Gung) was a fundamental part of this system. The Taoists began as scientists of nature. In the beginning, it was not a religion. Being a Taoist created art form, it is often that serious students of Yee Chung Tao become quite philosophical since the Taoist puts everything into philosophical ideas. If you know Chinese culture, then you would know that there are not many Taoist writings except for the Lao Tzu "book". Taoists do not put things down in writing.
Read Tao Te Ching, written by Lao Tzu who put in writing its philosophical principles of living (and legend has it when threatened) in order to be allowed out of the country into voluntary exile. Though it is a legend how the book came to be, it is an accurate description of the way in which true teaching happens. He who knows doesn't talk, but words are no hindrance for him. He uses them as he would garden tools. It is a book of 81 brief paragraphs, it is today the most translated text in the world after the Bible.
Grappling Mandala shared some excellent insight into this ancient art. Please read his postings if you are truly interested in YCT. It appeared from these postings that some of you "skeptics" are not really trying to seek the truth but merely to dispute or criticize. There is no box you can put a living art form into. Yee Chuan Tao is such a living self-defense art form. I also spent 23 adult years formally training in other art forms such as (ITF) Tae Kwon Do, Judo and (American) Karate, in which I have been honored with my 3rd degree. Notice I stated formal training. I wouldn't want some of your more "skeptical" martial artists to think I was doing it on my own - without lineage or proof... I have an open mind on all martial arts. My love is Gung Fu however.
I would suggest that it would be wise for all CMA to learn a little more about the Chinese culture if you are to do their arts and advise others about what the Chinese do or do not do. Tradition is a necessary thing. Those that require it, embrace it, those who despise it, rebel against it. Both traditional and modern have advantages. Classical on the other hand is harder to grasp since it is based on a foundation of concepts and proven methods. It allows creativity and adaptability. For some people, it is easier to follow set rules then it is to discover the limits. The limits in these terms are only defined by the individual involved. In this modern day world, people live in a box (house is a good example) every principal behaves in an expected manner. When we get sick, we go to a doctor who earns a degree that certifies his knowledge of human physical make-up, how it behaves and how certain medication can affect our ailments. In ancient China and even in today's China, people place their trust in a classically trained doctor who may hold no certification but has had a lifetime of knowledge passed on to them by their family or Sifu. People experienced for themselves that herbs and treatments by these doctors work. Why don't these people request a certification? Because they see and feel it working. That is worth more than any certificate in the world. A piece of paper cannot guarantee healing. What really matters is results.
How many martial artists out there explored the healing side of the art? In ancient times (I'm only speaking about the Chinese since that is my heritage), martial artists learned not only to defend but also to heal. It goes hand-in-hand. After all, if one is to learn the killing art, shouldn't one also learn the healing art? Chi Gung is one such healing art dated back to 16th Century BC. There is an excellent article here about the history of Chi Gung: http://www.chigung.com/en/history_page.html
Perhaps this thread is a good thing. The system has been acknowledged by bringing it out into the open in this forum. People are now discussing it. Good or bad. It has brought some of us out who would never have posted nor taken the time to do something out of our environment. Thanks to you, all you critics, you have given us power by your critiques and disputes. It is truly a Yee Chuan Tao concept in action: to redirect a certain force, taking that force directed at us, over-extending the force then using the same force for our advantage. How's that for a working martial application?
I could just go on but I will spare all of you (I hear sighs of relief) more about my philosophy regarding the martial arts. I only took on this writing since I can no longer stand idly by and read posts from people who judge without merit and lack of understanding, of someone whom I deeply respect.
Seek first to understand, then to be understood...
There are hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of martial arts systems. Can a handful of martial artists here name all the names of the martial arts systems in the world? Can a handful of martial artists here in this thread determine the "legitimacy" of an ancient art form when they cannot even tell me how many existing Chinese dialects there are in China? Have the modern day Chinese Martial Artists become so arrogant that they think they can determine a "legitimacy" of an art they don't understand and have never experienced for themselves? I hope not for the sake of martial arts! You cannot judge a system by how many forms it has, or how it is rooted in stances by looking at an online video of a flowing, moving form that is alive. If I was in a fight, I certainly would not root long but for the amount of time needed to redirected my opponent's force by changing into another stance. As far as lineage goes, it is important in traditional standards in a an established traditional art like Wing Chun or Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, etc. It shows how one's martial training background may be true to the original method of the founder. Even then, I have seen many school's forms looking very different from another school's form even though it's the same form name. Does that mean one school is not as good or is wrong in their teaching? No, it is the interpretation of the teacher (Sifu, Sensi, etc). That is the nature of evolution of the arts. What is now "traditional" was not traditional in the beginning. Someone had to use methods or forms to develop a standard way to teach, for ease of teaching. The Taoist uses no forms nor do they believed in writings (since forms create limits), any "forms" you see now are the evolution of what was then a set of movements practiced over and over again passed on by students.
Quoting RHD: I'm sure that Mr. Vendrell also has very little to do with anyone else in the Chinese Martial arts community. Why would that be I wonder...If he does, it would be very nice to hear from them. I won;t hold my breath though, because I truly believe that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck....its probably a duck
Do you think that your thread merits the attention of the Chinese Community? Traditional Chinese are (normally) very composed, inward people - speak little, pay little attention to trivial matters, try to mind their own business, try not to offend if possible. I am not traditional (I guess) having been in America for more than half my life. I grew up in Hong Kong and did Gung Fu with my grandfather informally, in who knows what (or cares) style. It was not like what is being taught now. Style name was not important to him. He just did what he was taught. This was when Bruce Lee was still living in Hong Kong and fighting his own "traditional" vs his own style battles with the Chinese practitioners there. When I first met Grandmaster Mike Vendrell, I was also skeptical at first but after seeing him teach and do Yee Chuan Tao Gung Fu, I was reminded of how the art looked and feel when I was training with my Grandfather. I knew the art was for real and after checking into his background, I too (as Grappling Mandala did), came to find that this man is no ordinary man. He has done so much that no ordinary guy could have done but that is Michael Vendrell.
Even though Sigung Vendrell tries to stay out of the limelight, Kung Fu Magazine (April 1993 issue) wrote an article on on him. David Carradine has many books published in which he has mentioned Vendrell. I quote from The Spirit of Shaolin, by David Carradine in which he spoke of Vendrell:
"...Throughout the movie I studied with Mike informally. His coaching was almost always in sparring. He would match his style with mine, work at my level of proficiency, then gradually lift me to higher levels, changing styles rapidly and talking all the while --coaxing, teasing, threatening, praising, probing, story telling, philosophizing...
...He has healing hands and is adept at joint manipulation, reflexology, massage and other curative therapies, such as a passive skeletal alignment similar to the "Alexander technique", and a "gong" therapy in which differently pitched massive bronze bells are placed around the subject's body and struck alternately in patterns and cycles designed to clear blockage and align the chi. The amazing thing about all this is that is works. If this is hard to believe, you've got Mike exactly; hard to believe! "
Gene LeBelle speaks very highly of Vendrell. He even named a move "The Vendrell Vice" after him. If you are a serious martial artist (or are old enough to remember), you should have heard of Gene LeBelle. He is famous in the Judo world on a highly documented, publicized event when he took on a challenge from the Boxing World back in the days of "whose martial art is the best," a boxer against a martial artist. It was after this that Gene became famous doing movies - as some of your postings imply you are too young to know. If you are a serious martial artist, you should be exposed to other arts and know of some other arts besides your own. After all, if you ever had to go against someone with another martial background, then you would have an advantage if you know how their system works since it will determine how they would fight you.
There is a saying, "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time."
Michael Vendrell did all these things and more. So he was in show business. Do you think he can fool all of Hollywood? For 30 years? I think not! He was one of the most sought-after stuntman and stunt coordinator in Hollywood and holds many credits in major movie releases. Being a stuntman is not like being an actor. You actually have to do the moves and make the actors look good. There is no faking it. Grandmaster Vendrell has trained many famous actors, don't you think they would have checked him out first?? Famous personalities have a way of seeking out the best for personal training. Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee is in show business, could they be frauds? Bruce Lee created his own system and also trained many famous actors. Is that considered as traditional CMA?
Grandmaster Michael Vendrell is very well-respected among the Chinese communities in the US as well as Canada. You cannot see in the video clip on his website the parts that were cut out. I have seen the original video, it is a large celebration of a Canadian Chinese community in Toronto which he was invited to do a demonstration. He was introduced (in Chinese) as an "accomplished Gung Fu Grandmaster". (BTW: he never insists on being called a grandmaster (Sigung) but just be referred to as Sifu. I insist on calling him one because that is truly what he is, a Grandmaster. There is no shame in being called a Sigong when one has demonstrated profound knowledge and skill, living up to the name as he has done.
Some of the postings seems to be stuck on the one line, single paragraph mentioned on his website of being " the undefeated survivor of "underground" no holds barred matches". If you were living in Chinatown L.A. in the 70's (ask any Chinese who is now 60 or older and was living there during that time period), then you would know these matches exist, are underground, and the price of loosing may be death or being crippled for life (so you think it's only in the movies, huh?). The only rule is to win. Chinese underground society are not nice people. Today's so-called "No-holds barred" matches are a cake-walk, no comparison to this kind of thing. I believe it is important to mention the "cage" fighting bit because it shows that Yee Chung Tao Gung Fu does work for Grandmaster Vendrell. If it has kept him alive in something as brutal as that, it will work for anyone, that it is an effective system of self-defense. aNadia is correct, most his matches lasted about 15 seconds. Also note that it read survivor, that didn't mean that he never got hurt or was untouched by the opponent.
Yee Chuan Tao is a classical art not a traditional art. It was developed by the Taoist; there is no single "founder," but was developed by groups of people. Taoism is the most ancient system of knowledge on earth, probably even preceding the traditions of Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, India and Greece. It began over 6000 years ago and Chi Gung (and Nei Gung) was a fundamental part of this system. The Taoists began as scientists of nature. In the beginning, it was not a religion. Being a Taoist created art form, it is often that serious students of Yee Chung Tao become quite philosophical since the Taoist puts everything into philosophical ideas. If you know Chinese culture, then you would know that there are not many Taoist writings except for the Lao Tzu "book". Taoists do not put things down in writing.
Read Tao Te Ching, written by Lao Tzu who put in writing its philosophical principles of living (and legend has it when threatened) in order to be allowed out of the country into voluntary exile. Though it is a legend how the book came to be, it is an accurate description of the way in which true teaching happens. He who knows doesn't talk, but words are no hindrance for him. He uses them as he would garden tools. It is a book of 81 brief paragraphs, it is today the most translated text in the world after the Bible.
Grappling Mandala shared some excellent insight into this ancient art. Please read his postings if you are truly interested in YCT. It appeared from these postings that some of you "skeptics" are not really trying to seek the truth but merely to dispute or criticize. There is no box you can put a living art form into. Yee Chuan Tao is such a living self-defense art form. I also spent 23 adult years formally training in other art forms such as (ITF) Tae Kwon Do, Judo and (American) Karate, in which I have been honored with my 3rd degree. Notice I stated formal training. I wouldn't want some of your more "skeptical" martial artists to think I was doing it on my own - without lineage or proof... I have an open mind on all martial arts. My love is Gung Fu however.
I would suggest that it would be wise for all CMA to learn a little more about the Chinese culture if you are to do their arts and advise others about what the Chinese do or do not do. Tradition is a necessary thing. Those that require it, embrace it, those who despise it, rebel against it. Both traditional and modern have advantages. Classical on the other hand is harder to grasp since it is based on a foundation of concepts and proven methods. It allows creativity and adaptability. For some people, it is easier to follow set rules then it is to discover the limits. The limits in these terms are only defined by the individual involved. In this modern day world, people live in a box (house is a good example) every principal behaves in an expected manner. When we get sick, we go to a doctor who earns a degree that certifies his knowledge of human physical make-up, how it behaves and how certain medication can affect our ailments. In ancient China and even in today's China, people place their trust in a classically trained doctor who may hold no certification but has had a lifetime of knowledge passed on to them by their family or Sifu. People experienced for themselves that herbs and treatments by these doctors work. Why don't these people request a certification? Because they see and feel it working. That is worth more than any certificate in the world. A piece of paper cannot guarantee healing. What really matters is results.
How many martial artists out there explored the healing side of the art? In ancient times (I'm only speaking about the Chinese since that is my heritage), martial artists learned not only to defend but also to heal. It goes hand-in-hand. After all, if one is to learn the killing art, shouldn't one also learn the healing art? Chi Gung is one such healing art dated back to 16th Century BC. There is an excellent article here about the history of Chi Gung: http://www.chigung.com/en/history_page.html
Perhaps this thread is a good thing. The system has been acknowledged by bringing it out into the open in this forum. People are now discussing it. Good or bad. It has brought some of us out who would never have posted nor taken the time to do something out of our environment. Thanks to you, all you critics, you have given us power by your critiques and disputes. It is truly a Yee Chuan Tao concept in action: to redirect a certain force, taking that force directed at us, over-extending the force then using the same force for our advantage. How's that for a working martial application?
I could just go on but I will spare all of you (I hear sighs of relief) more about my philosophy regarding the martial arts. I only took on this writing since I can no longer stand idly by and read posts from people who judge without merit and lack of understanding, of someone whom I deeply respect.
Seek first to understand, then to be understood...
