Why do katas dictate to have the rear foot planted for tsuki (straight punch)?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Acronym, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    So, if its that hard to do on both of your feet, in a strong stance... How much harder would it be to do that, standing on one foot?

    Baseball players go to the on deck circle, and put a weight on their bat and start swinging it. Why? The weight only slows down the bat. You never see a batter in the box waiting for a pitch, with a weight on their bat. I have never seen a home run hit by a bat with a weight still on it. Why are they so stupid... putting weights on their bats? Maybe you should go help them stop that as well.
     
  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    This is wrong. To achieve real power you need to rotate and lift the rear foot. This creates a weight shift.

    Try pushing someone back with both your feet planted on the ground compared to with your supporting foots heal lifted. It's the same Principle.
     
  3. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    You are still standing on both feet, but lifting the supporting foot up. And no it won't work that wya either because the entire method is unrealistic
     
  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    So if you have all the answers, why do you need to start a thread like this? You aren’t looking for any real input from anyone. You aren’t open to it. You just like to tell everyone you are right.

    So go ahead, do what you want. What any of us might have to say is clearly meaningless to you. Why bother pretending to want to “discuss” it? Your ego isn’t interested anyways.
     
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  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well no, the real answer is that you are unable to do it. What others can do is unrelated to your limitations.
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Kata trains multiple ideas and ingrains them into one "motion". You are focusing on just a straight forward punch and lifting the heel to get a bit more drive and distance with the punch. Look at the motion in the kata, most of the time you are chambering the opposite hand to the hip. If you now imagine that you are pulling your attacker into your technique, then you want the heel on the ground to give more stability. You are now using collisional energy in the punch by pulling them in as you accelerate forward with your punch, different type of "strike" and energy than just thrusting forward with a single punch, as a boxer would.

    Also, the stance as the picture pointed out is to handle returning or incoming force. The back leg with the heel on the ground is training you to be able to brace against an incoming force. Try a simple experiment, get in your "finished position" with your heel up and have a partner push you back. The heel goes back and down and it is easy to continue that backwards motion. Do the same thing with the heel on the ground and you can brace for more force pushing against you. If you want to get REALLY technical, the body's proprioception is set up that neurological when we are on the ball it signals muscles and pathways for mobility. When we use the heel, it signals muscles and pathways for stability.

    So, to answer your question, the heel on the ground is training you to brace against an incoming force as well as using collisional force in a technique, among other things.
     
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  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Why isn't arm pulling allowed then in kumite, or applied in bunkai
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  8. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Welcome to ignore
     
  9. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    I use it all the time in kumite. I use it even more in bunkai. Its quite effective in a number of different ways.
     
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  10. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well yes you can thank isac newton for that, all forces being equal and opersite,

    any force you impart that moves you opoinent backwads will also move you backward unless you brace against it

    you cant do that standing on one leg, boxers tend to plant both feet at least momentarily, when throwing power punches. over reaching, with forward momentum is a good way to get knocked out, as now his punch is vastly assisted by your forward momentum

    if your point sparing where speed is everything and power is meaningless, then different mechanics are optimal to trying to take someones head off
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
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  11. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    But the supporting heel is up, not down, during impact. that's what I'm referring to by planting
     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    And your back footd heel is down or up at impact? I bet you it's up
     
  13. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    You would be right... some times. Most of the time you would be wrong. Heck, most of the time there is no impact when I do it... I am a Jujitsu guy studying Shotokan as s second art. I also study what the founder taught about his art... These kata techniques have throwing and grappling applications as well as striking. But I also like pulling the guy into my strike, with the heel down as explained prior.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no not generaly, it depends on the range and if you need another two inches to hit the target or not,

    your making up hard and fast rules that dont exist, you need to be planted to develop most power, heel down is best, heel up if that the best you can manage,
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That seems to contain the answer. There's no impact, so the leg is planted to keep the punch from off-balancing you. Punching without a target to hit is always going to require some mechanical compromises.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    No it is not. No one who boxes keeps the back foot heal down on impact
     
  17. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Ok this is not my native language. Why does it only say "planted firmly" leaving out "on the ground"?
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    When he's off-balance.

    By being on the outside of his arm.

    Not sure what either of those questions has to do with your original point, though.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't look at much bunkai video (since I don't train these kata), but even I have seen examples of bunkai with that arm pulling.
     
  20. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Why would you pull someone in who's off balance?

    So you both pull him in and side step? That sounds very contrived.123
     

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