Why do katas dictate to have the rear foot planted for tsuki (straight punch)?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Acronym, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    It makes no sense for weight transfer not not raise it like you do in free sparring.

    What is the purposes of ingraining this body mechanic? It seems anti mechanical...
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you want both feet planted when you punch or neither if you using forward movement, if you raising it durring sparring you doibg it wrong
     
  3. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    No, this is with regards to during point of impact. Not when initiating it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  4. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Note that I'm referring to during point of impact.

    In my TKD encyclopedia for forms punching, it states that the rear foot you be planted when making contact, which makes no sense if you move and punch.

    I'm guessing that's borrowed from Karate forms.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  5. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    _20200909_193444.JPG
     
  6. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    ,
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  7. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Rear foot always off the floor during impact

     
  8. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Yet in Katas, the rear foot is planted when your punch is extended.
     
  9. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    :rolleyes:
     
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  10. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    So first off... from point number 10, that you circled above.... "to contain the rebound." The idea is to teach rooting. When you hit the other guys face, his face hits your hand. If you are on ice, you slide back at the impact and don't effect the other guy as much as you would if you feet were bolted to a very large, immovable rock.

    In boxing, they teach you to "sit down on your punches" for more power and harder hits. What that means is that the boxer will bend his knees more, and get a better connection with the ground. This makes the boxer less mobile, but makes his hits harder. One of the things I suspect is that they are over emphasizing this in kata, so that you will root better when fighting... even though you are not going to fully put your heel down.

    In Karate (I study Shotokan, not TKD...) I believe they are also trying to teach other things. One is to generate power in other ways. By making that heel stay flat, they are taking out the calf and quad muscles from generating power. To generate your power now, you must move your center. You move it forward such that when you hit, your body connects the punching arm, to the straight leg that is rooted to deliver the power. Also, you are dropping your weight to generate more power. Once you understand the structure you can combine the body movement forward and down, with the structure and then add in the quads and calf muscles... all working together for a very hard hit.

    Also... the tsuki is not always a punch... it may be a punch or a push or a lock or a throw or... many other things, depending on the situation. Some of these other situations, may need the heel down for better rooting. The heel being down is an indicator that there may be more going on here than simply a punch.
     
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  11. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    But as I showed in the clip, Karetakas have their rear foot off the floor just like boxers, when they actually fight. It's only in katas it's put down.
     
  12. O'Malley

    O'Malley Blue Belt

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    The clip is a light-contact competition clip, the movement (and the intention behind it) may be different from the one in the kata.
     
  13. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    That's my point. Why is there this dogmatic insistence on the rear foot planted in kata, even though everybody, including Karatekas, have it off the floor when actually applying techniques?
     
  14. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    I am not creating the thread to argue one over the other since Karatekas themselves have the good sense to ignore the kata mechanics. My only purposes of this thread is to ask Why?

    Is it simply bad mechanics passed on before people free sparred and later realised that this does not make sense (rear foot should be lifted when striking the punch, not planted firmly).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    During the

    - beginner training (static punch) stage, you want to borrow the counter force from the ground. your back leg is connected on the ground. Your punch coordinate with your back foot straight.
    - advance training (dynamic punch) stage, you want to move your body forward and cover distance, your back foot will no longer connect on the ground. Your punch coordinate with your front foot landing.

    Should one skip the beginner training (static punch) stage, IMO, that's not a good idea.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    That can't be the answer since higher kata belts have the same mechanics
     
  17. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    I covered this...

    Added bold this time. Why do boxers jump rope? You never see them jumping rope in a fight. They never even jump in a fight... They are over emphasizing certain things, to develop power and speed so that they can use those skills that they learned jumping rope, in the ring... even if it looks different.

    Also... the karate "step forward with straight punch" in kata... can have different meanings. That could be an arm bar take down, a hip throw, a wedge throw, a push... or many other things, in addition to being a punch.

    World Champion Boxers still jump rope.
     
  18. O'Malley

    O'Malley Blue Belt

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    The tsuki in kata and the tsuki in competition may have different goals. See wab25's posts.
     
  19. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Jumping rope is not a striking technique
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If the form creator didn't include "dynamic punch - hop in leading foot, back foot slide forward" in his created form, to coordinate punch with leading foot landing cannot be trained.

    The moment that you concentrate on how to coordinate your punch with your leading foot landing, the moment that you will take your mind away from your back foot ground connection. Your back foot then will slide along the ground when your body is moving forward.

    So to switch from

    - coordinate punch with back leg straight, to
    - coordinate punch with leading foot landing,

    is the critical training progress.123
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020

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