Why do katas dictate to have the rear foot planted for tsuki (straight punch)?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Acronym, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most likely because folks would assume that phrase - where else would it be planted, in that context?
     
  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    There's some collar grabs.
     
  3. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    You don't need to assume anything if it is written out plainly. That sentence is not following conventional structures by leaving "on the ground" even if everybody reading it gets it.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think you're imagining a specific scenario. Wrestlers pull and step to the side all the time. Judoka do it less often (they seem to prefer to stay close to the center in most cases).
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, that omission is pretty conventional.
     
  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Yes I am imagining the scenario pertaining to Karate, since this pull-in is not a wrestling maneuver. Wrestlers use both their hands, or they have one of the hands already inside.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    And even if they do (they don't), wrestlers don’t strike each other.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Which specific scenario, though? Karate doesn't produce the scenario - it responds to it (in theory).

    As for the pull, it need not be a huge movement of their arm (again, this is what I think you're imagining). When a boxer pats down a guard, that (if you remove the gloves) could also be a quick pull.
     
  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Kumite isn't a good test of its validity though since there's double tagging going on there all the time, which is precisely what you pulling the arm does not want in an actual fight where you punch to knock each other out.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Not every punch in a "real fight" has to be a KO attempt. Just as a boxer (who would also really like to KO the other guy) will use other punches to try to set up a KO.
     
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no one, ??? so one vid showing boxer doing such and youl admit you are wrong ?
     
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  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The heel up stance is not only used in boxing. Many MA systems emphasize this heel up punching posture such as the praying mantis.

    Advantage:

    - Mobility.
    - longer reach.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    That wouldn't hurt a fly.
     
  14. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    They won't skin touch or not touch at all, as they do in kumite.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what your point is here. We were talking about the utility of non-KO punches, and now you're talking about punches that don't make contact.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Yes, because traditional kumite is light to no contact. Both score. There is generally no harmful consequence of double tagging unlike in a full contact setting. So you can grab someone if you're confident that you can get the first strike in.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Kumite, as I understand it is just sparring. It can be hard or light, just like sparring. Most of training in most styles is pretty soft, so folks can continue to train every week.
     
  18. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    It is. Watch footage of the All-Japan and you will see it. It is also done in a lot of bunkai.
     
  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    I know those bare knuckle Japanese guys do it. I just didn't think of it for some reason.
     
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  20. Star Dragon

    Star Dragon Orange Belt

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    You can indeed "snap in" certain techniques with the back heel raised when power is not the primary objective. But with a reverse punch especially, it is advantageous to plant the back foot firmly on the ground at the moment of impact as that will definitely add to its power. For it will help you absorb the shock wave caused by your own impact and reflect it back into the target.

    Therefore as far as ideal body mechanics for power generation are concerned, the katas actually got it right, whereas tournament fighting got it wrong.

    That being said, if you consider tournament Karate a sport that emphasizes speed and flexibility over impact power, then you can understand why you see the players raising their heels all the time. Also, the distance in a tournament fight is different from what you would generally expect in a self-defence situation. - It was for a reason that Gichin Funakoshi was so disturbed by seeing the changes done to his art after it had arrived on the Japanese mainland.

    Much of what is frequently done in tournament fighting simply isn't going to be quite as functional in a street fight. If you practise for self-defence, I suggest you never lift either of your heels very much - except you are going to throw a kick with that same foot, of course.123
     

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