who actually thinks you can punch someone on top of you.

[drop bear]

Boxing hard punching.

 

[Argus]

Boxing hard punching.

Very similar in concept.

What many CMA's do is simply learn to shorten this motion up to get the same kind of power when you don't have a lot of room to gain momentum. That often requires a slightly different structure depending on the type of range, and attacks you're employing, and varies from art to art. But, that's more or less what we call "fajin"

 

[Hanzou]

Anecdotal evidence? Sure. But I'm not writing and defending a paper. Rather, I was indirectly suggesting that you might want to go get some experience for yourself before making claims about things you're completely ignorant of. If I started rambling on about ground fighting, which I'm entirely ignorant of, drawing conclusions and calling BS, I would expect you to put me in my place. Why do you think you can judge components of martial arts which you're entirely ignorant of, and don't even have a working definition, or understanding of to begin with?

'm sure there are people using fajin in MMA. In fact, there's a Taichi instructor who spoke about fajin being present in boxing, among other arts that he also practiced in a sports context.

Yet I have never seen boxers knocking people back several feet by barely touching them. Further, it would be pretty tough for a boxer to punch his way out of the bottom of a mount. The original claim that started all of this was the idea that you could somehow generate tons of power in a relatively short amount of space. Yet we never see this feat performed outside of demonstrations.

But, even the premise that there's nobody using a straight up CMA approach to fajin in MMA is flat out assumption on your part. I'm sure there's a small number of people who have invested the time into these TMA's as well as MMA, are competent in both, and utilize it in competitions. But that's going to be a small minority, simply because most people who are interested in competing in MMA are going to train arts that cater more to that goal. Why would you expect them to invest years into some internal CMA? It might help them, but it's not essential, so you can't argue that "if there were any merit, it'd be everywhere."

You seem ignorant of the nature of MMA. MMA is a highly competitive sport. In a highly competitive atmosphere, fighters within that sphere look for ANYTHING that will give them an edge over their competition. If these skills were truly as effective as seem to think they are, professional fighters everywhere would be clamoring to learn it. Look what happened to Bjj after Royce Gracie won the first UFC for example. Bjj went from some obscure Brazilian offshoot of Judo, to one of the most widely practiced MAs in the world. Why? Because it gave fighters an advantage. The fact that a bunch of hobbyist in a dojo can perform these incredible feats, but no professional is utilizing this skill is quite telling.

Your posts are filled with far too many straw-man arguments and assumptions. Someone says "X can be used here," and you generalize and exaggerate X, and then ask why it's not used everywhere if it's of any value. There are so many holes in that logic, I don't even know where to begin...

Not quite. I ask what is X, and I get a bunch of mystical mumbo-jumbo. So, I go find X online, and its just demos of ki-power junk. When I bring this information back, I get a bunch of anecdotes about how you met some guy somewhere who could perform this "magic" on you. Then I get attacked when I have the audacity to be skeptical about all of this?

Incredible.....

 

[RTKDCMB]

It's no better than saying that you arm-barred a Yeti in Malibu.

And there you go again taking analogies to an absurd degree because you have not seen something with your own eyes.

 

[Zero]

Just like throwing a pencil at a bad guy from 30 ft away.

This is actually a point in case and why hail marry moves or, alternatively, acts of desperation or madness can and do work - at times.

I am not proud of this but in high school a student was picking on my friend and shoving him at the front of the class. From the back of the class I threw a pen at him. I hit in him the eye and he was out of the game for a long while, I thank god he didn't suffer any permanent eye damage. I felt very bad and actually apologised to him later, I had no intention to actually hit him in the eye or hurt him. It was just an angry, reflex, stupid motion - but so often (!) when you just do the natural/desperate/reflex move - it actually, surprisingly, works!

Will throwing a pen across a crowded classroom hit the bad guy in the eye every time? No, but that time it needs to work, it just may well do so.

 

[Zero]

someone sitting on your waist prevents power generation. Sitting on any part of your torso, stops that link between feet to waist to punch.

I have huge triceps (having focused on my lats, triceps and quads) to generate enhanced and devastating striking power) so can generate enough piston power to KO from on my back with opponent sitting on my waist or chest, I guarantee if you are sitting on me and I do connect, I will rock your noggin and you'll be spitting teeth and blood (down on my face I guess, so that actually doesn't sound too nice, yuk). I do not need to engage hips or to put weight behind my punch (although clearly being able to do so generates a lot more power).

That said, I would generally be working for guard from outset or bridge or a bridge and sweep of their downward strike to take top position (and have done so in tournament to downward reining strikes). Also, it's very risky to be putting out and exposing straight limbs to arm or wrist control via punches (or other strikes, such as palm strikes) when you are in mount or on ground as you can be transitioned into arm bar or forced into kimura (including if you are using upward forearm strikes) if it goes bad and it will go bad quite quickly. So admit my optimal/desired move would not upward striking.

Upward head butts (which are a strike (in case Hanzou was wondering )) to face when in very close range can be a surprise but you risk exposing your neck to neck crank such as kubi hishigi and other problems.

While the first to admit that being able to put balanced weight behind a punch is a lovely thing, it's not such a hard thing if the timing is right to KO an opponent coming in while you are moving backwards (ie, no forward weight other than the arm). Same again while on your back, a KO is possible but first to admit it is a hugely reduced opportunity (and less power can be generated) and not necessarily the first thing you would be looking for - but as others have stated, that may be the very reason your opponent doesn't expect it and gets caught off guard.

I love knocking people out personally and enjoy and take more satisfaction in that than even a good submission and this has stood me to good effect in self defence, in real altercations on the street and in tournaments, including MMA. That said, I also trained in judo for years and supplement my karate with jujitsu. I think in this day and age (or any), if you have the time (unless you are just focusing on the sport element of your specific style), you would be mad not to devote time to both stand up, striking and grappling. It's all great fun!! Or am I wrong??

 

[Zero]

I don't even do bjj by the way.

I do other methods.

BS! It's too late to try that one dude!!

...what are these "other methods" you speak of?

 

[Zero]

Yet I have never seen boxers knocking people back several feet by barely touching them.

There's a one inch and a six inch punch for you...and a bit of backwards knocking going on to boot, for a bonus just for you Hanzou.

Although, I am struggling by what you mean "by barely touching them", not sure if you are now channelling "kiai" or dim mak into the conversation? : )

 

[drop bear]

BS! It's too late to try that one dude!!

...what are these "other methods" you speak of?

They are super secret other methods.

And I do mma.

 

[Hanzou]

There's a one inch and a six inch punch for you...and a bit of backwards knocking going on to boot, for a bonus just for you Hanzou.

Although, I am struggling by what you mean "by barely touching them", not sure if you are now channelling "kiai" or dim mak into the conversation? : )

I said a boxer, or some other professional fighter. Not a Kung Fu movie actor doing a demo.

 

[drop bear]

There's a one inch and a six inch punch for you...and a bit of backwards knocking going on to boot, for a bonus just for you Hanzou.

Although, I am struggling by what you mean "by barely touching them", not sure if you are now channelling "kiai" or dim mak into the conversation? : )

That guy took that bare knuckle hard enough to get thrown off his feet and didn't die.

There is some interesting mechanics going on there.

From my experience you compress forwards not backwards.

 

[Buka]

I'm a Bruce Lee fanboy, all the way, have been since I was a young man. Proud to say so, too. But the well known one inch punch demo is based on the stance of the person getting punched, not on the power of the strike. Put your feet in that stance and have someone lightly push you to the chest.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want Bruce Lee punching me in the chest, not by a long shot, but balance in a base is just that.

 

[RTKDCMB]

This is actually a point in case and why hail marry moves or, alternatively, acts of desperation or madness can and do work - at times.

I am not proud of this but in high school a student was picking on my friend and shoving him at the front of the class. From the back of the class I threw a pen at him. I hit in him the eye and he was out of the game for a long while, I thank god he didn't suffer any permanent eye damage. I felt very bad and actually apologised to him later, I had no intention to actually hit him in the eye or hurt him. It was just an angry, reflex, stupid motion - but so often (!) when you just do the natural/desperate/reflex move - it actually, surprisingly, works!

Will throwing a pen across a crowded classroom hit the bad guy in the eye every time? No, but that time it needs to work, it just may well do so.

I was once at school flicking the inside of my pen and it went over my shoulder and hit a fly in mid air and stunned it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That guy took that bare knuckle hard enough to get thrown off his feet and didn't die.

A simple push can cause the same result too. I have never convinced that "short power" can cause any serious damage.

 

[Zero]

I said a boxer, or some other professional fighter. Not a Kung Fu movie actor doing a demo.

Yeah, that's 'chinese boxing' and you never said chop suey movie actor boxers couldn't apply.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, that's 'chinese boxing' and you never said chop suey movie actor boxers couldn't apply.

In any case, I think we've established that the one-inch punch is nothing more than a parlor trick.

 

[Danny T]

The one inch punch shown in demos and like the video with BL is a parlor trick. However, it is the explosiveness, use of the elbow position, dropping of the wrist at the point of contact, and the fist to hip to foot alignment that is being shown but not seen. The punch is not used for striking as shown in the demo. But it does appear awesome to those who don't know.
In the reality of a fight we've all seen the boxers jab do little damage, seen the jab cut badly, seen the jab knock out. The jab could do the same demo as 1 inch punch demo also. Doesn't mean anything until it strikes you.

 

[drop bear]

The one inch punch shown in demos and like the video with BL is a parlor trick. However, it is the explosiveness, use of the elbow position, dropping of the wrist at the point of contact, and the fist to hip to foot alignment that is being shown but not seen. The punch is not used for striking as shown in the demo. But it does appear awesome to those who don't know.
In the reality of a fight we've all seen the boxers jab do little damage, seen the jab cut badly, seen the jab knock out. The jab could do the same demo as 1 inch punch demo also. Doesn't mean anything until it strikes you.

But I also assume if we are being vaguely on topic that this is viable when someone is on top of you.

I mean if you can legitimately punch a guy three feet with it then striking off your back would work.

If it is more for show then it is more likely you will get elbowed to death if you are relying on it to save you.

 

[Danny T]

But I also assume if we are being vaguely on topic that this is viable when someone is on top of you.

I mean if you can legitimately punch a guy three feet with it then striking off your back would work.

Possibility

If it is more for show then it is more likely you will get elbowed to death if you are relying on it to save you.

That is a possibility also.

If you have truly trained for any significant time vs another who is fully resisting and attacking you also know nothing works every time and sometimes the unusual works well.

 

[drop bear]

Possibility


That is a possibility also.

If you have truly trained for any significant time vs another who is fully resisting and attacking you also know nothing works every time and sometimes the unusual works well.

I focus on the techniques that work the most amount of times. So if my knee push escape works 10% of the time. And striking works 1% then I am going to suggest hitting that escape.

One method failing does not always validate the other method.