What to train for reality?

Discussion in 'Security and Bouncers' started by Kababayan, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Tarrycat

    Tarrycat Green Belt

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    I would recommend Krav Maga... I'm not too knowledgeable with regards to reality combat fighting styles, I'm just giving an opinion based on what I've heard about it.

    Luckily we do all of the modern combat fighting styles too in Ninjutsu; because my Sensei used to be in the Special Forces.

    Realistic combat fighting is a necessity. That's why I'm keen on taking it up someday. Unfortunately times have changed, but it doesn't make the Martial Arts invalid. I've heard about a lot of people who've escaped death, thanks to it.

    It just depends; when you're held at gunpoint, it's always best to comply; unless of course, you're Steven Seagal & you can manage to get out of it with confidence. :')
     
  2. marques

    marques 3rd Black Belt

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    Yep, Youtube and some other live experiences confirm it. Possibilities are infinite, but it is almost always the same 2 or 3 attacks. Even trained people, when angry, may forget everything and return to the old 2 or 3 attacks...
     
  3. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    Have you read Roy Miller's books? If not they are a must read.
     
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  4. Kababayan

    Kababayan Green Belt

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    I'm a Krav Black Belt. It's great stuff.
     
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  5. Kababayan

    Kababayan Green Belt

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    I'll check them out. Thank you.
     
  6. Anarax

    Anarax Black Belt

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    Thank for clarifying. Haymakers, takedowns, body grabs and headlocks are probably the most common attacks you'll encounter on the street from untrained people. What to look for overall is body language. Most people will give tells if they are about to attack you, especially the untrained. Situational awareness is a huge component in Security, Policing and bouncing. You have no idea what their intentions are nor what weapons they might have.

    Your CO friend is right, keep an eye on their hands and see if they're reaching for a weapon, that's crucial. Your bouncer BJJ friend is also right, don't go to the ground by choice, it's a terrible real life situation to be in. If he has just one other friend to attack you, or pulls out a knife you're in a world of trouble. Don't ever turn your back on them until you're at a safe distance.
     
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  7. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Personally, I have never been attacked 'for real' by anyone with any type of formal training that I'm aware of. Some people who might or might not have been in a fight or two in their lives, and who may or may not have been good fighters in the past, but typically drunks with lowered inhibitions and inflated opinions of their abilities with fisticuffs.

    My history is as an MP serving in a field unit in the Marine Corps, then some years in civilian law enforcement (but mostly as a dispatcher, security guard, etc). Been in a couple fights, I guess. Been attacked with hands and weapons. Nobody ever tried to kick me. Been wrassled to the ground by drunks, I agree with others who say that's bad mojo in general. Been tossed around like a salad by big dudes whom I tried to bring down with misapplied chokes and other forms of non-lethal force. However, I never lost a fight; all my guys ended up wearing my handirons and at the end of the day, that's what matters.

    If I had to train someone to deal with 'the street' and I had a day to do it, I'd teach them how to block high left and punch right. Never trust the 'walk away' and you're pretty much covered.

    Sure, I'm certain there are eleventy degree black belts in multiple disciplines out there who are itching to whup up on anyone who passes within their optical range, but I've never run into them; maybe because outside of work, I've never hung around in bars or places where testosterone runs like whisky and inhibitions are considered a bad idea.
     
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  8. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    this seems the most comprehensive answer, though it is perhaps answering a question the op didn't ask,

    if you want to tell your students what works on the,street, tell them the truth, that nothing works unless you have the physicality to make it work, just as any old rubbish will be most effective if you have the ability to use it.

    bouncers at least the ones round here, spend a good part of their week lifting great big weights, dealing with aggressive drunks is a piece of cake if you are twice as strong and 50 to a100lbs heavier. And of course they have back up, just in case they run into someone as big and strong as they are

    here's what happens when bouncers fight someone bigger and stronger than them
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  9. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    Contact these people:- Jeet Kune Do Athletic Association

    And find the best place to train in JKD where you live.

    Also stay in top physical condition would be my advice.

    I somewhat agree!

    First this can easily become a stupid discussion in my honest opinion.

    But lets just discuss this shall we, most fights in the street are coward acts of violence and unskilled in any martial arts or fighting techniques some just go straight to the face in the attempt to knock out that person and then followed by kicks to the body when they are down.

    You see this nearly every time there is a media footage reporting some-kind of incident nowadays.

    So someone who is trained and I mean trained not just some guy with a black belt.

    Someone who is very experienced and skilled in real fighting and controls the environment is also a very savvy type person or with a great fighting I.Q.

    That will know......... range of fighting, tactics E.g manage distance, a good sense of where to strike and striking tools like kicking punching, head butting, movement, understanding body mechanics etc..............

    Also have some speed and power and know how to develop it quickly, become very violent yet controlled and reading the fight, relaxed but also very alert and quick to react and counter and know when to be aggressive yet calm and so on.

    I could explain allot more but thats another thread on the "Types of Fighters and the Types of Temperament"!

    Anyway watch this...............











    Also this one .............. How To Fight a Fat Person and Win


    So like I have said in most of posts its always about you and your knowledge of fighting and how you either represent your self or express it, its never the martial art itself.

    Bruce Lee said it like this every human has two arms and two legs (The Human Body) but to express it without fear like in a small play in an act taken seriously................

    BRUCE LEE THE LOST INTERVIEW (1994) - Bruce Lee Interview | Canada | Full Interview | EN | Classics

    Its why I posted this here................. *** UFC - THE ART OF THE FIGHT ***

    Also posting in lots of other good threads like this one.............. increasing speed,

    Oh well never mind LoL

    Please note, it's always an intelligent and wise effort to avoid a street fight if you can, but if you are working as a Bouncer or in Law enforcement, I would only encourage keep your street skills up and always train being true to yourself. Know self and fight what is in front of you not your thoughts or emotions or fears and be aware of your surroundings.

    Learn to keep calm think and be creative and be very quick at doing it.

    I would advise to have Jeet-Kune-Do as a martial art easily for people in a life threatening career and a high level of fitness is absolute.

    Well thats my opinion, some really good discussion points for other threads though.;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed. And many of the tools that can lead to cuffing, for instance, are just takedowns that follow with pins, etc. The takedown is still valuable, and the pin might be, though not as much as for the LEO. Different emphasis in some areas, but many of the same tools work in both situations, and the basics are necessary in both.
     
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  11. Kababayan

    Kababayan Green Belt

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    Thank you to all that replied. I have summed up what the responses were just in case new readers don't want to read through the entire thread. Respectfully, I only included responses from people who identified themselves as former or current law enforcement, bouncers, or people in the security industry, as I was looking responses rooted in the experience of those who lived it rather than theoretical practice. These are in no particular order:

    - It's important to defend the left turn-rigth punch attack.
    - Read body language
    - Situational awareness
    - Learn good takedown defense
    - Watch attacker's hands for weapons
    - Be aware of headlocks and body grabs for takedowns

    Thank you for all who responded.
     
  12. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    and be stronger / faster / better cardio or stronger and faster and have better cardio, than your attacker, thats the most important
     
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    There is no such thing as "takedown defense". You have to train takedown in order to understand how to defend it.

    You should add "fast and long distance running" into that list.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    generaly you don't need both, either fast or long will do. If they haven't caught you in 40 yards they give up
     
  15. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    He isn't SWAT, and he wasn't in yet when Katrina hit, but he's a great guy. I know a lot of NYS Troopers. Now that I think about it, there aren't any I know that aren't good guys.

    Edit: one of my brother in law's Trooper buddies is a real douche. No idea why everyone's practically in love with the guy. I can see if he's taken a bullet for someone else, but that's not the case.
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If i wanted to reflect the situations that I would face in a street fight I would probably drill shootboxing. Mostly anyway.




    There is enough padding there that you can go at a reasonable pace. But also enough flexibility that will let you explore some different ranges and mechanics.

    If you can get your act together in that environment. Working out a self defence plan is going to be a lot easier.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    Those vids are nicely staged slow,drills that have nothing much to do with the actual realities of fighting and they mostly contradict each other.
    there is a marked difference to fighting someone bigger, in that they have a weight and reach advantage, and fighting someone,significantly stronger than you and worse of all fighting someone who is both significantly bigger and stronger .

    if they happen to be bigger stronger and faster, then you have more of less had it. Not many defences work well if they have picked you up and thrown you over or into a wall
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    In which case learn to take your beating like a man.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    indeed, but that was the point i made to the op of what he should be telling his students about street fighting, that there ability to make techniques work is to a large degree dependent on their athletic abilities
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes fighting is physical. Good training should reflect that anyway.
     

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