What is your level of education OUTSIDE the dojo?

[lifewise]

I have noticed that many martial artists / instructors read extensively. Many research their art/style to an almost obsessive extent. These are great attributes but are not the same as a formal post secondary education.

How many instructors out there, or assistant instructors (anyone who works with other students in a leadership capacity) have completed a post secondary education in sociology, psychology, criminology, or other human science?

For those who regularly work with children, how many have taken official coaching courses, or have any post secondary education in teaching?

:asian:

 

[Black Bear]

I have a four-year thesis-based B.A. (Hon) in Psychology, and a M.Ed in Educational Psychology in the Learning Development, and Assessment program. I am "chartering" as a psychologist (similar to what "apprenticeship" is in a trade). My day job is doing psych assessments. No doctorate for me, thank you. I want to start making good money, get a house, wife, and kids. Maybe in middle age.

I used to be a real psychology supremacist, because I was enamored with the knowledge that is yielded by rigorous experimental methodology and sophisticated statistical technique, but over the years have learned to appreciate the contributions and epistemologies of other disciplines. I'm also learning to appreciate the role played by life experience and what the wisdom of years offers that my education did not.

My instructor has very little education, though he has certificates up the wazoo from such hotshots as Bustillo, Shamrock, Blauer, Worden, etc. Instructional videos are his textbooks and he lives on them, day and night. He LIVES IN them, just like a grad student, when resting, when eating. The studio is his wet lab. He got some life experience through years in the infantry, victim services, and survival courses. There are things that are lacking for him by virtue of not having a psych or education background, but what he does do he does very well, and he's a nice person who really tries to help ppl learn. For the hours, money, work, and mental stretching he's done, I'd say the guy has about earned his Masters in combat... but not in teaching. The teaching he has a personal knack for. I'd try to talk the guy into college, but he'd never do it. Besides, he's got his own style hammered out.

Martial arts is physical education. It differs from "conventional" education in that the subject matter is experiential, concrete, kinesthetic, rather than verbally-based and largely abstract. I don't know about your school, but at my u, phys ed was considered the dumb jock major. There are some brainiacs in there, and I knew one who did a killer thesis on an exercise physiology topic, but for the most part, it's not genius-level stuff. Putting a few differences aside, strictly performancewise (teaching ability), I'd say my instructor is on par with a guy with a 4-year phys ed, rec and leisure (PERLS) degree and a couple years experience.

The other thing he sucks at, is business. He has no appreciation for the realities of marketing, etc. He's hired a consultant for a few months at a time, learned some stuff, and improved a bit.

 

[loki09789]

There are some brainiacs in there, and I knew one who did a killer thesis on an exercise physiology topic, but for the most part, it's not genius-level stuff. Putting a few differences aside, strictly performancewise (teaching ability), I'd say my instructor is on par with a guy with a 4-year phys ed, rec and leisure (PERLS) degree and a couple years experience.

QUOTE]

Phys Ed. as a major in college is on par with Health and Wellness major. You get to be exposed and some rudimentary practice at the different parts of the field as a whole, but no real development. Exercise science/Sports Science/Physical THerapy/Sports Med all do a much better job of teaching the foundational info on the topic of human performance and assessment. I know phys ed majors and health and wellness types who know how to do proper exercises, but can't sequence a routine or establish/assess periodization or phasic progressions for fitness goals.

My formal background is a B.S. in English Ed. As Black Bear mentioned this type of background prepares folks for more abstract topic knowledge and communication/teaching. The strength of English as an ed. topic that is different from other areas is that it is not a content specific subject, but a skills specific subject to teach. I have had a lot of success applying some of the theories and practices of pedagogy that normally are associated with coaching/training for sports/performance because of that skills focus over content information focus.

 

[lifewise]

That's great Black Bear. Your education I mean. You have accomplished a great deal. :asian:

Education is what it is. It is no substitute for experience, but it lays down a foundation to work from.

You went to great lengths to talk about your instructor - very commendable. You are obviously a loyal and devoted student. Are you also an instructor? I am interested to know how many martial arts instructors have the post secondary education I mentioned.

 

[Chronuss]

...I'm currently in the middle of my secondary education...does that count?

 

[lifewise]

Quote from loki09789 - "My formal background is a B.S. in English Ed. ... I have had a lot of success applying some of the theories and practices of pedagogy that normally are associated with coaching/training for sports/performance because of that skills focus over content information focus."

For those of us that are not familiar with the term "pedagogy" it means the art or science of teaching. Not to be confused with the term " pedology" (meaning the systematic study of the behaviour and development of children), which may be of greater value to an instructor. No disrespect intended, but doesn't it make sense to know your audience?


So, unless I missed it, that was a no to the education as I had outlined? Are you an instructor?

:asian:

 

[lifewise]

...I'm currently in the middle of my secondary education...does that count?

Secondary or post secondary education?

 

[Black Bear]

lifewise, thanks for the kind words. I do like my instructor very much. Not perfect, but he's a great guy. I know some MA teachers who have degrees, and teach garbage (albeit very effectively and succinctly!) That said, any martial artist who does not rest on their black belt laurels, but expands their skills and knowledge by putting themselves to a real test outside their comfort zone, like university, should be patted on the back!

I do not teach at our school. I have assisted, and taught seminars outside on areas I was strong in.

Tell us about your own background!

 

[lifewise]

I am a house wife. Simple as that, Black Bear. :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

I am a house wife. Simple as that, Black Bear. :asian:

Very Respectable :asian:

I have a BS in Computer Science, Minor in Mathematics, Chemistry and Physics and Philosophy. This is the result of a mispent youth as a Chemical Engineer student. I have also taken numerous Masters courses from Carnegie Mellon, Purdue, and a couple other one off courses at other U's or Colleges.

Not the smartest, nor the sharpest, nor the most educated. I just do my job
:asian:

 

[lifewise]

Very Respectable :asian:

I have a BS in Computer Science, Minor in Mathematics, Chemistry and Physics and Philosophy. This is the result of a mispent youth as a Chemical Engineer student. I have also taken numerous Masters courses from Carnegie Mellon, Purdue, and a couple other one off courses at other U's or Colleges.

Not the smartest, nor the sharpest, nor the most educated. I just do my job
:asian:

Hmmmm, I like the Philosophy part.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hmmmm, I like the Philosophy part.

Yes, I like to argue / discuss and this was a good fit

 

[lifewise]

Yes, I like to argue / discuss and this was a good fit

Interesting. You do teach correct? Do you find your education in Philosophy has any impact on you as a martial artist and instructor? I know it isn't considered politically correct to ask a fella's age, but I promise not to do the math if you give me an idea of how long ago you studied Philosophy in a formal school atmosphere.

 

[Black Bear]

When I was in grad school, I also heard these words thrown around:

andragogy: the study and practice of adult education (adults usually learn with a specific practical purpose in mind, as opposed to learning because they were told to, and since they have more of a knowledge base, they learn by connecting stuff with what they already know).

heutagogy: this was made up by an Australian shrink who spoke at a conference I was at. It supposedly means study of facilitating self-directed learning. The idea is that adults enter courses and programs as a conscious choice, as part of their lifelong growth. So how do we facilitate that. His ideas seemed fluffy, but he had good cartoons in his presentation. You can google it. I did. I think he's that Dr. Stewart Hase from Southern Cross.

 

[lifewise]

When I was in grad school, I also heard these words thrown around:

andragogy: the study and practice of adult education (adults usually learn with a specific practical purpose in mind, as opposed to learning because they were told to, and since they have more of a knowledge base, they learn by connecting stuff with what they already know).

heutagogy: this was made up by an Australian shrink who spoke at a conference I was at. It supposedly means study of facilitating self-directed learning. The idea is that adults enter courses and programs as a conscious choice, as part of their lifelong growth. So how do we facilitate that. His ideas seemed fluffy, but he had good cartoons in his presentation. You can google it. I did. I think he's that Dr. Stewart Hase from Southern Cross.

Too funny. :rofl: "His ideas seemed fluffy, but he had good cartoons in his presentation."

Seriously though, it is indeed interesting to note that there are many different ways people learn and unfortunately too many instructors have no clue.

 

[Rich Parsons]

:asian:

Interesting. You do teach correct? Do you find your education in Philosophy has any impact on you as a martial artist and instructor? I know it isn't considered politically correct to ask a fella's age, but I promise not to do the math if you give me an idea of how long ago you studied Philosophy in a formal school atmosphere.

I do teach in a class and I have done seminars and camps.

Philosphy helping as an instructor, I would say yes as it helps me keep an open mind. Yet, I find my education as a whole helps me because I can try to find other words or phrases or actions to describe and or teach.

I am 37, Single, 6'3" and look to be 230 to 240 lbs. I graduated in 1990 after 6 years of full time college with a four degree . Check the staff link for a picture.

And practicing math is always good.

 

[Black Bear]

Dr. Hase was a neat guy. A bunch of us went to a jazz club on the Friday night of the conference, and he seemed to be trying to get down with this attractive PhD student from Montreal.

 

[lifewise]

:asian:
I do teach in a class and I have done seminars and camps.

Philosphy helping as an instructor, I would say yes as it helps me keep an open mind. Yet, I find my education as a whole helps me because I can try to find other words or phrases or actions to describe and or teach.

I am 37, Single, 6'3" and look to be 230 to 240 lbs. I graduated in 1990 after 6 years of full time college with a four degree . Check the staff link for a picture.

And practicing math is always good.

Very nice. Thank you.

 

[rompida]

I teach children on a daily basis, inside and outside the classroom. I have a B.A. in Middle Grades English & Science Education, and another in Parks Management. Pursued the latter first, and realized that it wasn't what I thought it would be. So I went into the classroom. Been teaching 6-8th graders ever since and haven't looked back. You would think I wouldn't want to teach more at the dojo, but I relish it even more. Its a different kind of teaching with more willing, motivated students. In fact, I think my profession enables me to be a better MA teacher to young people.

 

[lifewise]

I teach children on a daily basis, inside and outside the classroom. I have a B.A. in Middle Grades English & Science Education, and another in Parks Management. Pursued the latter first, and realized that it wasn't what I thought it would be. So I went into the classroom. Been teaching 6-8th graders ever since and haven't looked back. You would think I wouldn't want to teach more at the dojo, but I relish it even more. Its a different kind of teaching with more willing, motivated students. In fact, I think my profession enables me to be a better MA teacher to young people.

Children can teach adults amazing things - if we let them. Of course you probably know this, and I suspect that is why you want to teach at the dojo.

How long have you been teaching in a dojo? As a school teacher, what differences in teaching approaches do you see between yourself and an instructor with no such education?

:asian: