What is "Traditional Ninjutsu"?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Bob Hubbard, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    another one that made me laugh :lol: i have to admit when i read the word i wondered if that was the correct word usage (couldn't remember the meaning). then i read the defenition! hee hee!

    peace
     
  2. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i absolutley agree with that!
     
  3. Kizaru

    Kizaru Purple Belt

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    Let's not and stick with "tradition".[​IMG]
    From my perspective this is as hypothetical as saying "So I'm in the Belgian Congo and 15 Yakuza jump out from monkies' rear ends and come at me with Kung Fu skills that would make Kwai Chang Caine quiver. What do I do?" Heads of tradition(s) are chosen because the person before him believes the new head can not only continue with the tradition, but guide the next generation into re-discovering it for themselves. If they chose the wrong person, the ryu deserves to die.

    YES! THE PERSON TO PERSON ELEMENT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!!! There is a ryu ha here in Japan that has multiple branches, one of those "branches" is lead by a group of people (Japanese) that bought old copies of the scrolls, practice the "moves" and claim authenticity through possesing the scrolls, but lack the proper distance, alignment, motivation, rhythm etc. From my perspective, the skills that are passed on through the lineage are more important than the documents; reality is more important than the image. Pieces of paper are thin; they won't stop punches.

    Think about it. If Don had a pocketfull of cash, he could just saunter on down to Kanda, buy a few authentic densho and proclaim himself an expert in any number of ryu ha! How absurd is that!?!?!
     
  4. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Or he could make up a mysterious Japanese teacher, named, say Tanaka. Then he could further claim that Tanaka taught him (insert school believed to have died out here), but passed away just before he was to leave him any documentation. Yeah, when you put it like that, it is pretty absurd...

    Jeff
     
  5. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    Hey, it would look good on a resume. :p
     
  6. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    or any pictures taken with/of him. or maybe his wife/son... etc! hee hee!:)

    peace
     
  7. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    Sounds like a real Ninja to me.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Kizaru

    Kizaru Purple Belt

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    Anything is possible. This scenario is not PROBABLE. Like Yakuza jumping out of monkies' rear ends in the Belgian Congo.

    It's not a matter of "Dharma Transmission", it's a matter of the teacher guiding the student saying, "this is correct, this is incorrect, if you do this you get X, here try it yourself"...You know, teaching from experience. Anyone can make a cake from a book, but it takes a seasoned chef to make a great cake.
     
  9. Kizaru

    Kizaru Purple Belt

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    Maybe he could prove his lineage by picking a brick out of a stack and breaking it like they do in the movies...if nothing else, at least it would be entertaining.
     
  10. DuckofDeath

    DuckofDeath Orange Belt

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    Click on the link, scroll down below "Social Security Death Index Search Results," enter "Senzo Tanaka," and see what you get:

    http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi
     
  11. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Wow! There was a Senzo Tanaka that died in 1975. I apologize, apparently I was completely wrong and Dux really did train with him... Nah, sounds like someone either scoured the obituaries for a Japanese name or got lucky...

    Jeff
     
  12. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    can we all see a picture of tanaka? thats all i ask for... then the rest we can deal with later.

    peace
     
  13. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    In any event, Dux' system is not traditional ninjutsu. Take it to the modern forum...

    Jeff
     
  14. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    no! ;) wouldn't dux' system be a traditional topic (for bashing purposes) for traditional ninpo practicioners? i think its fine here on this side! :)

    peace
     
  15. DuckofDeath

    DuckofDeath Orange Belt

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    But Dux is actually mentioned in the Senzo Tanaka SSDI info that comes up. Bring it up again, and under "Tools," click "View Post-em."
     
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  16. Bester

    Bester <font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu

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  17. Camosam81

    Camosam81 Guest

    hey all, I just wondered, has anyone here verified firsthand the validity of a ninja school??

    Why come out now and sell courses on DVD when cloaked in secrecy for so long, and especially selling the art to westerners??

    Seems funny.

    Just seeking some real info.

    -M
     
  18. r erman

    r erman Green Belt

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    Well, if you have studied japanese feudal history you would know that shinobi no jutsu(aka ninjutsu) ws an accepted part of japanese warfare, and not some secret cult. The idea of ninjutsu as separate from samurai systems is a fallacy born of cinema, comics, and speculation. Many schools of samurai bugei contain ninjutsu, and these schools have also proliferated to the West.

    If Hatsumi hadn't been established as teaching elements of ninjutsu before the 80's ninja boom who knows what the enrollment of the various takamatsuden organizations would now be, however he was teaching publicly as early as the sixties.

    As the ninja craze was starting you had people like Steve Hayes returning from their training in Japan. This did nothing but add fuel to the fire. It is really no different than people obsessed with Kwai Caine Chang(sp) and the old kung fu series going to China and finding that Shaolin still exists--but just like that example the reality was far different from the myth...

    Very few people use the ninjutsu label at all within the x-kans and their various offshoots.
     
  19. Camosam81

    Camosam81 Guest

    Ha ha... wel, maybe I have studied a bit of japanese history, but that doesn't change the fact that there has been a very prevalent anti-westerner attitude, and that all ryu, samurai and ninja, did have certain methods that they prefferred to have hidden from others. Tended to give them the upper hand.

    In regards to traditional ninjutsu, you would support Hatsumi?? Would you support the basic stuff being taught through the Van Donk Bujinkan DVD course??

    I have no doubt that I could learn through the medium of DVD, but I just want to know what others' take is on this...

    -M
     
  20. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    you will find different opinions on this (like anything else). imo i believe dvd is a good way to learn if you have communication with your sensei or instructors. you will need a training partner too. also if you at least get a chance to train every once in awhile in a school atmosphere that would help too.
    rvdonk is on a thread i created some time ago. not much said about him so i would think go for it! he seems like he has a decent course. i have never seen any videos but his site is informative.
    peace
     

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