Ninja Forum FAQ:

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Bob Hubbard, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Ninja Forum FAQ:

    Question:
    How many organizations are there and how are they organized (Who's at the top, etc)

    Answer: (Jay Bell)
    There are three main organizations. The Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.

    The Bujinkan is headed by Hatsumi sensei. The Genbukan, Shoto Tanemura and Jinenkan Unsui Manaka. They were both longtime senior students of Hatsumi sensei and broke away to do their own thing.

    Shoto Tanemura went on to study with other teaches of Takamatsu sensei and funneling his knowledge into the Genbukan. Manaka sensei developed what he knew into Jinenkan. And developed a weapon based art called Jinen ryu that contains methods and ideas that aren't found in other bujutsu schools.

    The Jinenkan was formed in 94, if memory serves. It's teachings from Gyokko ryu, Koto ryu, Shinden Fudo ryu, Togakure ryu and Kukishin ryu...and also the Jinen ryu which Manaka sensei developed.

    See http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=369 for more info.

    ===

    Question:
    Where is a detailed description of Ninjutsu?

    Answer:
    The famous Rec.Martial-Arts FAQ contains a lot of good information
    http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~mcweigel/rmafaq/rmafaq3.html#16.ninjutsu

    ===

    Question:
    Can someone tell me what an X-kan is?

    Answer: (tmanifold)
    X-kan is a term used to reffer to the three traditional style ninjutsu organizations. They are The BujinKan, Genbukan and JinenKan. They are all decended from the Bujinkan organization of Hatsumi Sensei.

    ===

    Question:
    How do these schools differ? What is the typical thought about ToShinDo and Master Hayes? How is Genbukan different from Bujinkan?

    Answer: (Pyros)
    Bujinkan
    - a curriculum of combination of nine traditions by Hatsumi
    - has some guidelines what and how to teach the lower ranks but the instructors can use their discretion
    - goes from drilling the basic kihon kata fast into training all kinds of applications

    Genbukan
    - a curriculum taught by Tanemura
    - has a strict belt to belt rank system with exact syllabys for all ranks
    - the combo learned from Hatsumi with some minor outside influences too
    - has actually two separate programs: ninpo bugei and kokusai jujutsu

    Jinenkan
    - a combined curriculum of six traditions by Manaka (learned them from Hatsumi)
    - has a very strict belt to belt rank system
    - focuses on perfecting the basic kihon kata before going for applications

    ToShinDo
    - a curriculum created and taught by Hayes
    - techniques based on what Hayes learned at Bujinkan
    - whole syllabus has been modernized, defences are trained against modern boxer-type punches and so on instead of traditional lunge punches, and so on.

    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8890

    ====

    Question:
    What is the difference between NinjUtsu and NinjItsu?

    Answer:
    NinjUtsu (Note the U after the j) is a Japanese art, which traces its history back generations. NinjItsu (note the i after the j) is a modern creation tracing its roots back to Frank Dux.


    ====

    Question:
    What is Taijutsu?

    Answer: (Jay Bell)
    Taijutsu is a generic term used for unarmed combat. Much like "Jujutsu". It's not Ninpo specific.
    Budo Taijutsu is Bujinkan specific. The Genbukan uses Ninpo Taijutsu and so on.

    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4192

    ===

    Question:
    What is this "Quest System" or "ToShinDo" I hear about in connection to Steven Hayes? Isn't he a ninja?

    Answer:
    Steven Hayes at last report was still a member of the Bujinkan and still on good terms with GM Hatsumi. He has been teaching his own flavor of his ninjutsu training under the To-Shin-Do name for a while now through his Quest Centers. More information can be found by searching this forum and at http://www.skhquest.com/training/ToShinDoDescription.aspx

    ============

    More FAQ's to be added as we can.
     
  2. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    about the ninjutsu or ninjitsu...
    well it seems like all the koga ryu schools seem to call it "ninjitsu" now i know this might spark up debate and name calling that there is no koga schools cause there is no ancient "writ". i know it tells of a white ninja like none other and about sensei and two gaisha. (joke) we have heard it all before. the fact is there are koga schools. even if they can't back their claims with anything written on a writ. they still call it ninjitsu. hope i don't offend anybody but sometimes it gets redundant in here. i'm just saying that there are schools that proclaim the koga as there origens, and they call it koga ninjitsu. has nothing to do with dux, duncan, or anyone else. i posted some sites up under the thread "sites?" just something i stumbled on to.
    peace
     
  3. Bujingodai

    Bujingodai Brown Belt

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    So you'd like some FAQ on the independent systems.
     
  4. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Sure. :)
     
  5. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    what is quest?

    i believe that someone else... i think mr. severe also has a quest series of his own. i believe that mr. hayes's was first. not sure maybe someone can shed some light on the difference. i think mr. hayes calls his dojos quest center and mr severe has a program called quest. i maybe wrong. (i hate when i'm wrong)
     
  6. Genin Andrew

    Genin Andrew Guest

    for information go to www.skhquest.com

    Hayes calls his "To Shin Do" dojos "quest centres" and i think his To shin Do art is referred to by some as "quest" i dont know alot but the site is pretty informative.I'm not to sure about the Ralph Severe side of things but i'm sure he will post and clarify...

    much respect
    -andrew
     
  7. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

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    I would...because I don't understand where "Independents" fit into the mix (except for those indie schools who are clearly using the ninjitsu name with no real lineage to back it up).

    Domo Adigato

    Yours,
    Mr. Roboto
    :asian:
     
  8. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I would like to update this regularly.

    I am looking for various information:
    - Who is Frank Dux
    - Who is Steven Hayes
    - Who is Masaaki Hatsumi
    - Who is Ashida Kim
    - Who is (Insert important name here)

    - What is (Insert important term)


    I ask that the information be presented in a professional manner. Cite references where you can, and if the information is pulled from another thread here or elsewhere, that a link is included.

    Thank you.
     
  9. Shogun

    Shogun Master Black Belt

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    A video series is out on "Koga ryu Ninjitsu", by Juan Hombre. the cover has ninja "flipping out". lol.
     
  10. Kalifallen

    Kalifallen Guest

    Stephen K. Hayes - His ninja books will tell you a lot about him. Especially the, Secret Fighting Techniques, book (I believe that is the title). From what I remember he started in 1974. Has a BA in Theater Arts. Started The Shaows of Iga in the late '70s while he was still learning from Hatsumi. Married Rumiko a student of Hatsumi's. Had a baby girl around '85 (don't know anything about their daughter). And that's all I know.
    What is it? Modern, all Bujinkan but has a Western philosophy.

    Robert Bussey - Read, Ninjutsu: Basic Skills & Techniques, and Keith Jones', "King of Combat" The Devastating Approach of Robert Bussey, for more info. Though busseystyle.com also has some info. Started learning ninjutsu around the age of 16-18. Had a Karate dojo (I believe) already set up before he started ninjutsu. Started that one up at the age of 15 with his friend. Started RBWI around the age of 21. Never recieved his 5th dan because he was supposibly "scared of the sakki test" (says Glenn Morris in his strategies book). Afterwards he just taught ninjutsu and stopped in '97. Now he teaches a self defense course, Genuine Bussey Style.
    What was it? Modern, stuck semi true to the Bujinkan art while incorrperating Christianity and ninjutsu applications that aren't popular (high kicks, etc).

    Rick Tew - Ah, I'll try and find the site. I know I have the link somewhere. This was written by one on Tew's students. It said that he started learning the martial arts when he was a teen. Learned kickboxing, hapkido, something else then ninjutsu. He knows RWBI and Dux Ryu. He quit/got kicked out of Dux Ryu because when he was a black belt he was telling Dux how he could improve on his art and Dux didn't like that. So he left, and know many Dux students dislike Tew. On a trip to Europe with one of his teachers he got the idea of starting a training camp. In/Around '87 he started Tew Ryu Ninjitsu. (There is a video clip of him doing the splits on the horse and the date says '87) He has never said he teaches ninjitsu/ninjutsu though he does use the term.
    What is it? Hybrid, incorrperates all the martial arts that he has learned and what he enjoys to do.

    Ashida Kim - Check out the ashidakim.com site. He tells that he learned the art from Count Dante. Which is confussing since Dante did not know ninjutsu. Kim claims he knows Koga ninjutsu called Mui Gui Jutsu (not sure on the spelling. He is part of the orginzation, Black Dragon Society Clan. He says he took over the ninjutsu orginzation of the clan which Dante gave to him. And he says, he wanted to be a ninja so he could steal and assassinate people. Still takes students and supposibly has a home study course.
    What is it? Fake, has no proof.

    Frank Dux - frankdux.com might help. Doesn't teach anymore because of physical problems.
    What is it? Fake, has no proof.
     
  11. jibran

    jibran Guest

    Kali, great job with your descriptions. I will try to finish it while mantaining you standard of writing.
    Masaaki Hatsumi- The Grandmaster of Ninjutsu by lineage. He recieved the masterships of the ninja martial arts from Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the 33rd Grandmaster of the Togakure Ryu ninja tradition. Dr. Hatsumi has recieved several awards from around the world, including German Knighthood and the prestigious Imperial award of culture (or something like that). He is the Soke of the Bujinkan organization and the nine martial arts that it is composed of. The X-Kans are headed by his former senior students.
    What is it? The Bujinkan offers legitimate training in classical Japanese budo. It is the largest nimpo organization in the world.

    And about Mr. Hayes' daughters: They are both black belts (at least nidan, I will have to ask to be sure) and extremely skilled. The Hayes daughters are very kind and will answer any question you may have about the Quest Center program if you call the Bujinkan Kasumi-An Dojo/ Dayton Quest Center.

    Mr. Rustaz,
    I hope this helps.
    Your buyu,
    Jibran Khan
     
  12. Satt

    Satt Black Belt

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    Hey Kaith, I thought you were on "vacation". Nice to see you back though.

    :ultracool
     
  13. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Since I believe I should stay away from the AN forum for the time being, I just want to point this out to everyone who hasn't given it thought yet. The following words are among those NOT synonymous with the concept ninjutsu:

    - Bujinkan/Genbukan/Jinenkan/To Shin Do/martial science

    - Taijutsu/unarmed techniques

    - Ninpo

    - Bujutsu

    - Budo

    - Shurikenjutsu

    - Taihenjutsu

    - etc.
    And I still haven't figured out why someone would want to call something ninjutsu that isn't, Japanese or otherwise.
     
  14. Kizaru

    Kizaru Purple Belt

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    I've noticed that recently Enson, gmunoz and Moko have been banned, and Bestor has been suspended.

    These four members contribute often to these threads, and after looking at what they'd written in the past few weeks I found it difficult to pinpoint their reasons for suspension and/or banning.

    Could someone on the staff clarify the grounds for their banishment and/or suspensions here so that others (such as myself) can avoid the same fate?

    Thank you.
     
  15. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Without going into specifics,
    - When warned, take it like a man. Don't argue with the staff member or admin who sent it, and definately don't get insulting, threatening or demanding.
    ---- 1 hint "Using the phrases 'Ill sue', or 'Im gona get everyone to leave MT and start a real board'" are not going to win you any points.
    - When requesting your account be closed, don't tell us to F-Off, suggest locations to insert the server, or creatively speculate on the contents of our family trees.
    - When using the "Report to Mod" feature, it is not neccessary to find every post by an individual in a thread or threads, and report them seperately. (Also including ultimatiums in those reports will most likely get you ignored or worse.)

    There are more, but thats the main points I think.

    Now, for a few specifics:
    Due to comments made via the PM system, the Rep System and on the forum themselves as well as abuse of the RTM system or violating 1 or more of the points above, Enson, Gmunoz, Moko, Bester, SojoBow and Yariman have been suspended, for varying lengths of time. A few cases were multiples. (Note I am going back a month or so here).

    Due to false information in the profile, as well as the above abuses, Yariman was banned.

    Enson, Gmunoz, and Moko's "account closure" requests were converted to bans based in part on statements made to various staff on the way out.

    Both Bester and Sojobow's suspensions are up after New Years.

    We have also issued a number of warnings, both unofficial friendly ones, as well as official ones privately and publically.

    Our desire for the Ninjutsu sections is to provide an area for the discussion of the topics, people, history and events related to that subject. We and I would like to see it grow to be comparable to our leading forums Kenpo and the FMA.
     
  16. kwaichang

    kwaichang Purple Belt

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    SKH was "told" by Grandmaster Hatsumi to "go and take your knowledge to the world" and he permitted him to create his own style, which he did shortly after (or during his studies) becoming a Shinto Priest.

    I'm fortunate to have studied under SKH for years and have been to Japan to meet and study with Hatsumi Sensei and Tanemura Sensei before he left to create his own school.
     
  17. allenjp

    allenjp Brown Belt

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    OK, now I'm confused.

    Many people on this forum would state that Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan are the ONLY legitimate Nijutsu organizations out there. If they are not synonymous with Ninjutsu, what is?
     
  18. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Ninjutsu is a fairly unique Japanese phenomenon, the knowledge of which is contained within the Bujinkan, Genbukan and Jinenkan.
     
  19. Raynac

    Raynac Green Belt

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    I was wondering is To-shin do a main organization now?(as it has been close to 5 years since the last post in this thread)
     
  20. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    No. Toshindo was removed from this forum and given its own, since its an "American" art, not a Japanese one.
     

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