What is Sil Lum Gung Fu?

[JadeDragon3]

Ok guys. Can we return the original topic please?

Sure. Sorry....lol.

Sil Lum (shaolin) Kung Fu - tiger, crane, leopard, snake, and dragon
A lot of what I have learned came from the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien province & from Ng family style kung fu (Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng). I've kind of learned a mixture of the two. Ng family style is very similiar to 5 animals of Shaolin but is heavily influenced by 6 Harmonies. http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxliuhe.htm

On a side note....the two teachers (Ng & Dufresne) mentioned in the link I provided on 6 Harmonies are both my teachers. I studied under GM Ng for 3 yrs and still study under Sifu Dufresne.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Sure. Sorry....lol.

Sil Lum (shaolin) Kung Fu - tiger, crane, leopard, snake, and dragon
A lot of what I have learned came from the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien province & from Ng family style kung fu (Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng). I've kind of learned a mixture of the two.

Have you heard of Rick Ward by any chance? He's located in Boone, NC. It was at one of his branch schools in Tennessee that I trained at. My Sifu was Chris Laing. He told me, as has been said, that Sil Lum is Shaolin in Cantonese. But he also taught us that we used lower stances and shorter movements in the southern style. For instance, we would learn a technique or a form, and he would say, "We do it like this. Northern does it like this", and would demonstrate. Very similar movements, but not the same.

I'm having a real hard time articulating it so I hope I'm making sense. FWIW, I loved training it. Not to discredit the style at all because I truly love it, but I do find the SPM I switched to to be better suited to the street with less time in training. As beginners/intermediate, we supplemented our Sil Lum with various other "control" techinques. I absolutely LOVED the forms but I was only learning the 3rd form after 2 1/2 years and still had much to learn about the applications of technique in the form. We were taught them as we learned but my muscle memory was still undeveloped and I found that when sparring I would often revert to a control technique rather than a form technique.

It's nice to see Sil Lum discussed. Okay folks, carry on.

 

[clfsean]

Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin

End of explanation there.

JT... I looked at the website you gave earlier. It looked like Ark Wong's Ng Ying Ng Ga style.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin

End of explanation there.

JT... I looked at the website you gave earlier. It looked like Ark Wong's Ng Ying Ng Ga style.

That's what Sifu said too, about Sil Lum vs. Shaolin. Yes, the lineage goes back to Ark Wong. I used to have a chart of it, but alas, cannot find it now. (Of course when I want to post it, lol) Murphy's Law right?

 

[clfsean]

That's what Sifu said too, about Sil Lum vs. Shaolin. Yes, the lineage goes back to Ark Wong. I used to have a chart of it, but alas, cannot find it now. (Of course when I want to post it, lol) Murphy's Law right?

If you were doing the Ng Ying Ng Ga, it's southern.

Course... the SPM you do now is southern too... just different...

 

[Jade Tigress]

If you were doing the Ng Ying Ng Ga, it's southern.

Course... the SPM you do now is southern too... just different...

Yeah, I knew it was Southern and that's why Sifu said we used Sil Lum instead of Shaolin and stressed the differences in our forms. All of the terms we used in class were Cantonese. I was a beginner at the time, you know much more about what I was training than I did! lol It was just Sil Lum Kung Fu to me (I'm sure if I dug up my notes it's in there somewhere). But that's why I've always respected your opinions. :asian:

 

[clfsean]

Yeah, I knew it was Southern and that's why Sifu said we used Sil Lum instead of Shaolin and stressed the differences in our forms. All of the terms we used in class were Cantonese. I was a beginner at the time, you know much more about what I was training than I did! lol It was just Sil Lum Kung Fu to me (I'm sure if I dug up my notes it's in there somewhere). But that's why I've always respected your opinions. :asian:

You give me too much credit. I know a few things about a few things is all. What I do know I'm certain about, what I don't know I listen & learn.

 

[Ben Grimm]

But there are many forms of Siu Lam Kuen. I only know of a few, such as Hung Ga, Lohan Kuen, Ying Jow. I only know of them by name and very little about from and/or application.

 

[JadeDragon3]

Whats up Ben?

 

[bowser666]

So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ? Wu Xing Chuan ? ( Shaolin 5 Animals ) If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature. I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.

 

[blindsage]

Bowser, I think you misunderstood the discussion.

Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin

End of explanation there.

I believe what you study is the same. Siu Lum is the southern (Cantonese) word for Shao Lin. Wu Xian Chuan I'm guessing means 5 Animals Fist, which would not contradict the above statement. If correct then the full name of your style would be Shao Lin Wu Xian Chuan.

 

[Jin Gang]

Maybe now that it has been understood that Sil Lum is the Cantonese way of saying Shao Lin, we need to talk about what Shao Lin is, and how it relates to Chinese martial arts in general. It seems some people may not know about this yet.
As the word is used today, Shaolin does not exclusively describe any single school or style. The Shaolin temple on Songshan mountain is the legendary birthplace of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism and also became famous for the martial arts practiced there, everyone probably knows this already. What may not be known is that the actual styles taught there over the centuries were not necessarily consistent, nor were they necessarily invented by monks. A common belief supported by historical evidence is that over the years, generals, officials, soldiers, and other various lay-people visited and stayed at the temple at various times. Over the years, different styles were exchanged and changed and evolved, as always happens. Through the centuries, people came to the temple, shared and learned different types of martial arts, and then went out into the world again. Sometime during the fall of the Ming and the rise of the Qing dynasty, the temple was destroyed and its inhabitants scattered throughout the country (there were other times it was destroyed as well, but this was the one that all the stories and movies are about). This event is cited in the history of most styles as the time when one of the survivors of the temple came to their part of the country and started teaching shaolin martial arts.
And then there is the legend about the southern shaolin temple in Fujian province. Some people say there was a secondary temple started, maybe before the Qing destruction and maybe afterwards, where new martial arts evolved. Some people think the legend about the destruction and the five ancestors is actually referring to the southern temple, not the original one in the north.
There are a large number of different Chinese martial arts which use the name shaolin or trace their lineage back to shaolin. This might be one reason why some people have said that shaolin is the "birthplace" of all Chinese martial arts. Really, I don't think it was the birthplace but maybe more of a distribution center.
In the north, most longfist styles are or claim to be from shaolin, such as hong quan, tai tzu chang quan, hua quan. In the south, Hung Gar Kuen and similar related styles claim a shaolin legacy as well as Choy Li Fut, Fujian white crane, wing chun, five ancestors fist and other similar styles. The five animals are something mainly seen in these southern styles.
There are longfist lineages in the south of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan as well, and these will look different than the longfist styles in the north.
This is only the briefest of overviews, the relationships and origins of all these styles can get complicated. But the main point is, that the name "shaolin" or "sil lum" is so widespread that it really doesn't indicate anything about the content of the style using it.

 

[Tez3]

I never understood any of the discussion, I just love reading it because of all the names. Seriously!

 

[clfsean]

So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ? Wu Xing Chuan ? ( Shaolin 5 Animals ) If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature. I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.

Just to add to what JingGang & Blindsage wrote, Sil Lum isn't 5 animals. 5 Animals is 5 Animals. Siu Lum is Siu Lum. You may study Siu Lum Ng Ying Kuen (Shaolin Wu Xing Quan), which is to say "Shaolin's 5 Animals" but that's not to say "All 5 Animals are Shaolin" or "Shaolin is 5 Animals".

Besides that, there are a few systems that can actually claim Siu Lum & 5 Animals as the foundation of what they are and the majority of them don't "play up" the fact. Yes it's acknowledged & recognized, but that's not what they consider the "selling" point of the style, just a foundation point.

 

[JadeDragon3]

So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ? Wu Xing Chuan ? ( Shaolin 5 Animals ) If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature. I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.

Dude, here is a chart showing your lineage. http://www.swyi.com/lineage.htm What don't you understand? http://www.swyi.com/history.htm According to the chart your style comes from Shaolin Temple. They taught more than just 5 animals. And there were more than one temple. Each temple taught different things. any further questions I suggest you ask your sifu.

 

[Mei Hua]

Maybe now that it has been understood that Sil Lum is the Cantonese way of saying Shao Lin, we need to talk about what Shao Lin is, and how it relates to Chinese martial arts in general. It seems some people may not know about this yet.
As the word is used today, Shaolin does not exclusively describe any single school or style. The Shaolin temple on Songshan mountain is the legendary birthplace of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism and also became famous for the martial arts practiced there, everyone probably knows this already. What may not be known is that the actual styles taught there over the centuries were not necessarily consistent, nor were they necessarily invented by monks. A common belief supported by historical evidence is that over the years, generals, officials, soldiers, and other various lay-people visited and stayed at the temple at various times. Over the years, different styles were exchanged and changed and evolved, as always happens. Through the centuries, people came to the temple, shared and learned different types of martial arts, and then went out into the world again. Sometime during the fall of the Ming and the rise of the Qing dynasty, the temple was destroyed and its inhabitants scattered throughout the country (there were other times it was destroyed as well, but this was the one that all the stories and movies are about). This event is cited in the history of most styles as the time when one of the survivors of the temple came to their part of the country and started teaching shaolin martial arts.
And then there is the legend about the southern shaolin temple in Fujian province. Some people say there was a secondary temple started, maybe before the Qing destruction and maybe afterwards, where new martial arts evolved. Some people think the legend about the destruction and the five ancestors is actually referring to the southern temple, not the original one in the north.
There are a large number of different Chinese martial arts which use the name shaolin or trace their lineage back to shaolin. This might be one reason why some people have said that shaolin is the "birthplace" of all Chinese martial arts. Really, I don't think it was the birthplace but maybe more of a distribution center.
In the north, most longfist styles are or claim to be from shaolin, such as hong quan, tai tzu chang quan, hua quan. In the south, Hung Gar Kuen and similar related styles claim a shaolin legacy as well as Choy Li Fut, Fujian white crane, wing chun, five ancestors fist and other similar styles. The five animals are something mainly seen in these southern styles.
There are longfist lineages in the south of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan as well, and these will look different than the longfist styles in the north.
This is only the briefest of overviews, the relationships and origins of all these styles can get complicated. But the main point is, that the name "shaolin" or "sil lum" is so widespread that it really doesn't indicate anything about the content of the style using it.

Good post, but just a quick note
Lohan, is particularly a Shaolin style created at and by Shaolin.
Of all the systems that are a part of Shaolin , Lohan can be traced as being the sole true style of the system.