What condition do you carry your weapon?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bruce7, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Um... What? An Unintended Discharge is not synonymous with Glock Leg.

    Try again. What are the stats on UD's during draw? Then give us a percentage of those for all draws.
     
  2. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Who doesn't want that?
     
  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    That's nice. Now give a percentage. So far you've got this one and some guy I remember from YouTube.
     
  4. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Yes.

    Dang. Maybe we shouldn't allow them to drive either. One accidental pull of the wheel to once side or the other and someone may be dead!

    Because it's a half-century out of date and predicated on technology and a training paradigm that are 100 years out of date.[/QUOTE]Can you think of any major training organization or school in the U.S. which actually advocates for <cough> "Israeli Carry" for civilian self defense? Gunsite? Front Site? KR Training? USCCA? SIG Academy? Suarez International? Lethal Force Institute? Defense Training International?

    Which ones?

    Look if you want to carry C3, that's fine. But there are darn few reasons to advocate anyone else do it, and fewer still (as in none) that can't be addressed with training combined with a firearm designed in more recently than 110 years ago.
     
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  5. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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    Two years ago I went downtown for jury duty and could not find the court house.
    I pull up to a police car, to ask for directions and he points a gun at me.
    Before I could say any thing, he said move or he was going to arrest me. I was glad to move, I was very shook up.
    I don't go down town Houston anymore, because I am afraid of being shot by the police.

    Police in kingwood where I live are very friendly and very helpful.
    They are not going to pull a gun on me, so I am not worried about them carrying condition 0.

    I had been told by many people be careful when you go into Houston, police will shoot you.
    I told them they were crazy, Houston police are not that bad.
    I am not so sure now.

    Very informative article with good numbers.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...hootings-by-police-expose-training-shortfalls
     
  6. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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  7. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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  8. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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  9. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    @Bruce7

    Let me better explain my position.

    In my experience, UDs while drawing are extremely rare and switching to an Israeli method of carry doesn't correct the problems associated with UDs.

    The problem is not the condition you carry it in....its the improper handling and trigger finger discipline.

    For example....Officer Joe Blow has poor handling practices and trigger discipline. As he draws his weapon....his finger pulls the trigger and the gun goes boom.

    The same Officer Joe Blow carrying in a Israeli method draws his weapon, chambers the round and again the gun goes boom.....why...because the problem is his finger being on the trigger... not the condition of the weapon. Switching to the Israeli method does not correct the problem.

    The gun doesn't go boom unless you pull the trigger.

    Also most holsters cover the trigger....and almost all UDs are after the actual draw. So again the Israeli method does not correct that (because you chamber a round when you draw). One exception was the black hawk holster which used a button on the holster located over the trigger guard to release the weapon from the holster. The button had to be pressed down to release the gun from the holster and some people had the tendency to continue to press down as they drew causing their finger to pull the trigger. The simple fix...dont use the Black hawk holster.

    So switching to the Israeli method basically asks the carrier to slow their response time to a threat plus take on all the problems associated with the Israeli method for the sole purpose of a false sense of safety.
     
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  10. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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    Do people train enough for condition 0 or 1?

    Minimum Training

    Average cost of gun training $ 250 per day
    1 day + $50 Ammo = $300
    Range 20 times 50 rounds
    Bulk 1000 round 9mm tax and shipping = $250
    20 times Range fee targets,etc 20 x $20 = $400

    Total Cost = $950

    Drawing weapon at training school = 8 hours
    Hour and half at shooting range x 20 = 30 hours

    Total Hours Practiced = 38 hours


    Good Training

    Average cost of gun training $ 250 per day
    5 days + $250 Ammo = $1500
    2 Bulk 1000 round 9mm tax and shipping = $500
    40 times Range fee targets,etc 40 x $20 = $800
    Range 40 times 50 rounds

    Total Cost = $2800

    Drawing weapon at training school = 40 hours
    hour and half at shooting range x 40 = 60 hours


    Total Hours Practiced = 100 hours

    I don't go to schools because I can not practice Drawing condition 3.
    I go to my friends ranch to pratice condition 3 draw and shoot about 200 rounds.
    It is a long drive so I only go to his house about twice a month, sometimes once a month.
    We general shoot other guns too, it makes for a nice weekend.
    Outside of my 1911 airpistol, I have not shot any weapon since Januray because of the Cornoavirus.
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Mule muffins! You can do draw & fire holster-work training at home for $15.

    https://www.amazon.com/ZOOM-Action-Proving-Dummy-Round/dp/B077MXCJPC
     
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  12. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    You don't even have to pay the $15....just work on drawing with an empty and safe weapon at home.

    If it goes click....you know you did something wrong.
     
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  13. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I like using the Laser Marking Cartridges with a free printed target and a free phone app.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  14. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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    I agree this is a good product. (A-ZOOM Action Proving Dummy Round, Snap Cap)
    I keep live ammo in black magizines and snap capes in a silver magzine.
    I only use snap caps to practices trigger pull.
    To practice drawing and firing at home at first I had used a primer and plastic bullet.
    Since the 1911 air guns are so much like my real 1911 I use it for drawing and firing.
    Cheaper quieter and hits the target better.
    A good one is a little over $200.
     
  15. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Could use a airsoft pistol if you have one as well. (doesnt work for marksmanship obviously, but if its a proper replica of the one you carry manual of arms should be the same)

    Wait, did you mean airgun airgun or airsoft airgun? If you meant airsoft then the above was completely worthless.
     
  16. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    A laser marking cartridge does the same stuff but lets you use your own gun so you know it's your trigger and your sights.

    If you insist on spending real money, there's the CoolFire option which uses your gun, a CO2 fill so you get felt recoil, has a laser marker option, and still uses your trigger and sights. The full package will run you about the same price as 20 boxes of .45ACP. You can easily burn up 20 boxes in 2-3 range sessions.
     
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  17. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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    I like the Tanfoglio Witness 1911 Blowback BB Pistol. They are only $100 now at airdepot. Lot cheaper than I paid for mine.
    123
     

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