Western 10th Degrees. Fake or legit?

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by James Kovacich, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Plus add the 10 years to get to first degree to make it 40 years.

    But that formula dosen't work in the higher Dans. Joe Moreira was a 6th Degree when I met him in 1998 and still is a 6th degree. Same with Rickson, been a 7th maybe as long as Joe's 6th. Rorion and Reylson have been a 9th degre for a long tome too.

    I think the 3 year formula is only early on in the low Dans.
     
  2. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    10 years to get a shodan seems awfully inflated. if you cant get the basics down sooner than that......there is something wrong with you or your teacher.
     
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  3. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Master of Arts

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    Not necessarily, especially given that a more traditionally oriented school may be aware of the Chinese maxim that for the first 10 years you aren't even a serious student and are ill prepared for advanced instruction...

    I don't know that shodan (or its relative equivalent) is limited to the basics. Some arts are, and I don't think I'll get much disagreement here, far more complex and require more information than others. This is one of the issues expressed upthread, the inability to apply the standards of rank equitably across cultures, styles and arts. Too many variables.
     
  4. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Skilled martialartists get to shodan within 6-7 years but the beginner is average 10 years in BJJ.

    Getting your basics down might get you your blue.
     
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Master of Arts

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    However, the mentality of rank and title in the view of Occidentals is that to claim such represents experience. Therefore the common wealth, is "drugged" into the same mindset. To use a psychological term in pun, the "opiate of the masses".
     
  6. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    i wish people would grow a pair when they give negative rep points.....sign it.
    how weak
     
  7. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    the basics IS black belt.
    north americans have somehow made the whole black belt acheivement a mystical and unobtainable level........i stand by my comment
     
  8. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    You're right about the basics EXCEPT with BJJ. The Brazilians have set their own standard on this, not the Americans.
     
  9. The Kai

    The Kai Master of Arts

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    Ye$, and a high $tandard it i$, you will need to do a lt of clinic$ and $seminar$ to met the $tandard
     
  10. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    i agree
     
  11. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    ok...wasnt royce a godan in the first UFC?
     
  12. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    I think a fourth and now a fifth.
     
  13. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    so the standards apply to people not in the family
     
  14. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    There are some who have broken the standard in BJJ.

    Matt Thornton boasts that his students only need to "give game" to the students that are the next belt level up. But he comes from JKD and he may see things his own way.
     
  15. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Do you know how long Royce has trained?
     
  16. BlackCatBonz

    BlackCatBonz Master Black Belt

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    well.....let's say he started training at 5, started competing at 8.......10 years to black belt would put him at 15, first UFC at 25 and a 4th or 5th dan.....thats 2 years per rank.
     
  17. The Kai

    The Kai Master of Arts

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    Lets see since he was a kid. Again how many childrens rankings hold a lot of water??

    So the question is why can a Gracie go above black belt but outsiders are being held back?
     
  18. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Ok same scenario.
    10 years to 1st black, age 15. 3 years per dan for the early Dans. age 24 4th Dan by the accepted standard. As they get higher in the Dans it takes longer, much longer.

    In the last decade he recieved only 1 Dan grade.
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Master of Arts

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    Well, I guess if I was to be overly concerned, I wouldnt have any.
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    BJJ is simply different. I'm not sure it's helpful to focus on it.123
     

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