Tournament time..... :)

Discussion in 'The Competitive Edge' started by _Simon_, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    Cool, some food for thought, cheers. I think some solid sparring drills will be needed to work on the unpredictable and aggressive opponent. See how we go
     
  2. ShotoNoob

    ShotoNoob Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Well, karate kumite how it is practiced today often looks to these kinds of drills. Which incidentally, I don't do. I jjust posted a sample of the JKA training Shotokan and it's headquarters, however, and they do incorporate what I will refer to as more sport oriented training. And practical too. Here's a sample.
    2:32 / 3:41
    Kumite Training Turkish female kumite team training
    4,752 views

    [​IMG]
    Sport / fitness and arts marteialle sport

    Published on Nov 24, 2017

    I'm sure Martial Talk posters can fault this kind of training, yet allow me to point out broad 2 benefits.

    (1) The competitors are doing rounded conditioning, as opposed to heavy physical strength training. The karate moral is rounded physical fitness which maximizes the total ability for how the body can physically perform.

    (2) The are practicing with partner's who also if you think smartly, are also human opponents. OTOH, the partner receiving the technique if you think smartly are also facing human opponents. The driller and partner both are accomplishing a number of principles in execution the drills this way. That is, they are not just physical moves, but multiple karate principles are being executed according to the foundations of the TMA model..

    I prefer the traditional 1-steps.

    Now should you go back to the Limmerick video, you will see examples of total human potential as TMA can better develop that, expressed in certain of the better competitors. It will be a range, a spectrum of accomplishment. Most karateka struggle to get past the physical - where the boxer shines. Those which express that mental intensity and translate that into perfect whole body technique, that is the dynamic karate striking which can crush a boxer. Or your aggressive, steamroller opponent.

    Have fun with that.
     
  3. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    I think certain drills have their place for sure. Kumite drills that have one person as the aggressor definitely are beneficial. I remember in Kyokushin we did this many years ago, one person just barrelling into you with punches and you have be quick on your feet, use angles and quick footwork to make sure you weren't pushed into the corner of the room. After getting used to it it became more natural how to move and to also move without being in a state of panic.

    One-step and three-step sparring have their use too, but also have limitations. I like to glean what I can from each drill.

    Even in the video I can see the benefit of those drills to develop certain characteristics and skills.

    Am also a fan of developing the body, mind and spirit as a whole, but no harm in doing certain drills which emphasise certain ones ;). Even depending on your total outlook and intention, tournaments can even be a platform for developing across the board, although of course it has its own limitation. Just being realistic and honest about drills and what you understand or don't understand about drills helps growth immensely I've found too.
     
  4. ShotoNoob

    ShotoNoob Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    73
    The text I bolded in your post, this is precisely what the kumite competitors do conventionally now. I'll post a follow on video of the Turkey female kumite competitors in the WKF championships.

    Keep doing what you are doing. That includes your open mind.

    What I will be following, in the near term, is how well you address that flinch reaction. So I look forward to your continuing saga.
     
  5. ShotoNoob

    ShotoNoob Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Female Team Kumite SPAIN vs TURKEY (3/3). 2014 World Karate Championships. Bronze Medal
    21,623 views

    [​IMG]
    World Karate Federation
    Published on Dec 31, 2015

    Following along on your comment, this is limited contact point fighting, and is bounded & constrained by it's certain rule set. Presumably these competitors are all black-belt level, so well exposed to, well experienced in the traditional karate curriculum.

    The Spanish gal is bigger, she has the size & strength advantage. Just like that black-belt competitor who barreled into you. How does the Turkey gal defeat that? With the base goal of the exercise: Perfect technique. That is defined as the faster technique w perfect form. The Spanish gal, championship level sport wise, she is just not @ the Spanish gal's level. That's Lesson One.

    Lesson Two is that karate kumite competition is so about perfect technique, that the competitors lapse on the follow up. So we see the hard hitting counters like in the Limerick vid, and the vicious takeouts in the SA Regional Championship vid. The Spanish gal here nearly evens the match by using her size & strength advantage plus good follow on the exchange, to score the takedown / ippon. Very well done.

    This is one of the big advantages karate kumite has over MMA the way they are scored, for martial arts I mean. With karate kumite, you can lose the entire match at any instant from one, single mistake. With MMA, we see these competitors battle each other for up to five rounds, binging & banging away, wrestling, rolling all over the place. The martial stakes are set much higher in karate kumite for the mental challenge, which is where it should be.

    Finally on the flinch reflex. Look at how disciplined these gals are at maintaining their attention on each other as opponents, and throughout the entire match. Compared to MMA, kumite matches are much shorter. Nonetheless, the level of discipline in how they adjust and change in reponse to the movement of their opponent is comparatively very high relative to MMA. Flinching is at a minimum. Very little.

    How did they attain that degree of composure? Good luck with that.:blackeye:
     
  6. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    Yeah will work on that, next tournament's probably next year, cheers.

    Cool match, yeah I liked the quickness, technique and footwork from the one from Turkey. And how she maintained her posture and centre.. much to work on! Cheers for posting
     
  7. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    @JR 137!!! How did your Seido tournament go in October if you competed?? I didn't forget, just kept forgetting to ask
     
  8. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    In the dojo
    Didn’t compete. Withdrew at the last minute due to back pain that got to the point that every time I hit anyone, my entire mid back would spasm up. Turns out I have a bulging disc in my thoracic spine (mid back). Really sucks. Haven’t been on the floor since the beginning of October.

    Hopefully I’ll be back right after the new year. I just finished up a heavy dose of oral anti inflammatory meds. Hopefully my orthopedic surgeon friend was wrong and I won’t need an injection. I made an appointment to get it done in the middle of January, but I’m confident I’ll be able to cancel it at this point. Only time will tell.
     
  9. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    Ah crap.. sorry to hear mate that's no good. Rest up and get better soon alright
     
  10. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    In the dojo
    It’s all good. I feel about 95%. I honestly thought about going to class Monday night, but I just have this feeling that I’m going to do something stupid and set myself back again.

    It’s been bothering me since the first week of September. I ignored it for a while and it just got progressively worse. I tested for 1st kyu the first week of October, and that night was awful pain-wise. Getting hit was fine, but every time I hit someone the whole right side of my back tightened up pretty bad. As the night went on it felt like it was tearing. After that night I figured taking a week or two off would do the trick. 6 weeks of doing nothing with 4 weeks of seeing a chiropractor 3 times a week, and there was honestly zero improvement. I got an MRI and found out I wasn’t just being soft :)

    My friend who’s an orthopedic surgeon told me the only thing that’s going to really help is an injection. I told him I wanted to try some oral anti inflammatories first, so he wrote me a script, saying he doubts they’ll work at that point but might as well try while I’m waiting for the appointment for the injection.

    Call me crazy, but I want to exhaust all other options before I have a guy stick me in the spine with a needle under X-Ray guidance. I’m not afraid of that, but I’d like to avoid it if at all possible. I just finished up the pills two days ago, and I honestly think I’m good. But I’m going to give it until after the new year to be on the safe side. If I end up back to where I started, I’ve still got the injection appointment in the middle of January.

    But not training really, really sucks.
     
  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    3,070
    Likes Received:
    935
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    Sorry to hear this. Best wishes for recovery. I hope you have a good Ortho.
    In 1990 I was in a long car chase that ended up with the assailant running off a bridge into a creek. He got out and bolted. I jump off the bridge onto the car (not very high), then off the car into the creek. What I didn't know was that the creek bed was one big slick rock. It was about 2 a.m. so I had my torch in one had and pistol in the other. When I landed on the rock both feet went up and I landed hard on my tailbone. Perp got away but was gut shot a month later. I hobbled around for about two months and finally gave up and seen an Ortho. I had ruptured L4. My Ortho gave me an epidural and with something that looked like a livestock syringe went in and drew fluid off the disc and it slipped back in. Don't know if that is how they still do it but my back gives me very little trouble other than letting me know when I am slouching, which I guess is a good thing.
     
  12. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    In the dojo
    I don’t think there’s any drawing fluid, but rather a shot of anti-inflammatory and pain drug. My friend is referring me to a colleague who’s a spine specialist. My friend is quite good, and by all accounts his colleague is quite good also. Hopefully I won’t have to get it done, but only time will tell. As of now I don’t think I’ll have to. I’m not canceling the appointment yet, because if I do it could take 4 weeks or so to reschedule. I’ll wait until I’m a week or so away.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    Geez that sounds really rough... am glad you've found some relief with the anti-inflammatories. Yeah and good idea to wait until you're all better, nothing worse than pushing yourself too hard and being back at square one again.

    And can empathize with the not training... I'm struggling with that too, but am understanding there's no rush, and best to get better first. Be patient with yourself and you'll be back in no time :)
     
  14. Yokozuna514

    Yokozuna514 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Sorry to hear about the injury but glad to hear you are having it followed by someone. A few months of missed training are a drop in a bucket compared to a lifetime of study but I agree I hate stopping for any reason. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
     
  15. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    1,484
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    Go get the shot.

    I tried the same....every time it would start getting better I would tweak it again. After a couple months went and got the shot and just like that I was 100% within a few days
     
  16. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    In the dojo
    Yeah, that’s in the back of my mind.
     
  17. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    3,070
    Likes Received:
    935
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    I guess I don't remember the details but I do remember laying there on my stomach watching the ultra-sound and seeing that big *** needle go between the bones. I had a shot of happy juice so it was kind of funny watching it at the time.
    Hope all goes well. The wait has to be a grind.
     
  18. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,429
    Likes Received:
    5,977
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    All good thoughts to you, JR.
     
  19. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    In the dojo
    Thanks everyone.

    @_Simon_
    Sorry for distracting from your thread :(
     
  20. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Australia
    No no all good, I did ask! :)
     

Share This Page