The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[Martial D]

Actually pretty sad. You know better and can debate better. You know you're practicing a logical fallacy. It's like if someone walks into a busy street and won't admit buses exist.

You claimed my analogy wasn't an analogy. I thought maybe you didn't know what it meant as it patently was one thing compared to another. That what the word means.

And no, my analogy said exactly what I meant to say. I realize you don't agree, but as a guy that sells TMA for a living why would you?

Also, reducto ad absurdum isn't a logical fallacy , it's a way of breaking them down. But this isn't that.

 

[Martial D]

but you said claim to have used it in a FIGHT, if you mean ring fight, then that's only a tiny % of all the fights in the world . so you cant assume that has any relevance out the very tiny spectrum of ring fights

So were the evidence you claim that TMA is rarely effective in FIGHTS

You do realize cameras work everywhere right?

 

[jobo]

You do realize cameras work everywhere right?

Ok so what percentage of all the fights in the world do YOU have video of to base this assessment on ?

 

[Martial D]

Ok so what percentage of all the fights in the world do YOU have video of to base this assessment on ?

Hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage yielding one sided results.

A sample size more than large enough to reach a reasonable conclusion.

 

[jobo]

Hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage yielding one sided results.

A sample size more than large enough to reach a reasonable conclusion.

you've watch thousands of hours of you tube fights ? you really need to get out more, your whole life is passing you by as you stare at you tube

Ok il ask the question again,

how do you know what the sample size you've viewed is ? unless you know the total number fights its impossible to say

How have you ascertained that what you have viewed is a representative sample. as you don't know to a factor if it hundreds or thousands of hours of hours you've viewed it does seem unlikely that any thought has gone into this at all and the number of hours is irrelevant, its the number of fights that is the key measure

I really shouldn't have to teach people basic statistical analysis

 

[Martial D]

you've watch thousands of hours of you tube fights ? you really need to get out more

Ok il ask the question again,

how do you know what the sample size you've viewed is ? unless you know the total number fights its impossible to say

How have you ascertained that what you have viewed is a representative sample. as you don't know to a factor if it hundreds or thousands of hours of hours you've viewed it does seem unlikely that any thought has gone into this at all and the number of hours is irrelevant, its the number of fights that is the key measure

I really shouldn't have to teach people basic statistical analysis

No. Not just YouTube, I study the game wherever I can. But yes, YouTube too.

As for your take on 'statistical analysis'..anyone that understands how that works that is reading this just facepalmed hard. If I need to be taught further I think I'll look for someone a tad more qualified, no offense

 

[jobo]

No. Not just YouTube, I study the game wherever I can. But yes, YouTube too.

As for your take on 'statistical analysis'..anyone that understands how that works that is reading this just facepalmed hard. If I need to be taught further I think I'll look for someone a tad more qualified, no offense

What game , we are talking to the largest % about street fights. which clearly are the majority and are not a '' game''

if your just . as seems likely, basing this on sports fight then its automatically not representative.

but your refusing to actually provided any statistics to back up your claim,

JUST ANECDOTES of all the hours you've wasted

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes, 100%. But on both sides- new practitioners expect the ability to do this and spectators expect to see it.

-RP

I guess they will just have to be disappointed then if that's what TMA is to them then it'll never be functional.

 

[Martial D]

What game , we are talking to the largest % about street fights. which clearly are the majority and are not a '' game''

if your just . as seems likely, basing this on sports fight then its automatically not representative.

but your refusing to actually provided any statistics to back up your claim,

JUST ANECDOTES of all the hours you've wasted

The evidence is there for everyone, not just me.

Anyone can practice a TMA for 20+ years like I have, and then test it through years of MMA style training as I have, or done the requisite mat time and sparring time to get a feel of what sort of things work in reality and which just...don't..as I have.

Anyone with the inclination to understand what they are saying before they speak.

. .just as someone can do none of those things, and still voice an opinion.

This isn't about me, or you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So, for something to be TMA, it must never progress. Now I understand your view.

If that's what's going on, then that's a misconception about TMA. TMA has always changed and progress and changed. One only needs to walk back through the origins of a system to see this occur. If that's the understanding, then any discussion about TMA being functional is not going to go anywhere.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What TMA did you train for 20+ years?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Anyone can practice a TMA for 20+ years like I have,

What TMA did you train for 20 years?

 

[jobo]

The evidence is there for everyone, not just me.

Anyone can practice a TMA for 20+ years like I have, and then test it through years of MMA style training as I have, or done the requisite mat time and sparring time to get a feel of what sort of things work in reality and which just...don't..as I have.

Anyone with the inclination to understand what they are saying before they speak.

. .just as someone can do none of those things, and still voice an opinion.

This isn't about me, or you.

No its about the claim you made that there is evidence TMA RARELY works in a fight

and all your giving is anecdotes.

I have personal testimony( anecdotes ) that TMA works very effectively in street fights.

You have personal testimony( anecdotes) that you've watch a lot of you tube

In the absence of you actually providing the evidence you claim exists, Then these two divergent points of view are equal as they both faithfully represent our experiences.

Though mine is based on first hand experience and yours on vicarious thrills

 

[Martial D]

What TMA did you train for 20 years?

Wing Chun. My post history has all of the details, I tend to mention it.

 

[Martial D]

No its about the claim you made that there is evidence TMA RARELY works in a fight

and all your giving is anecdotes.

I have personal testimony( anecdotes ) that TMA works very effectively in street fights.

You have personal testimony( anecdotes) that you've watch a lot of you tube

In the absence of you actually providing the evidence you claim exists, Then these two divergent points of view are equal as they both faithfully represent our experiences.

Though mine is based on first hand experience and yours on vicarious thrills

Ok, pretend that the last 30 years of modern martial arts don't exist, and that new footage of traditional 'masters' getting wrecked by mediocre MMA fighters isn't being released every single day.

That's cool with me. Believe how you will.

In our previous conversations you have argued that punching power comes from the arm, and that you've never put on gloves. That tells all I need to know about the value of what you might believe on this subject.

 

[jobo]

Ok, pretend that the last 30 years of modern martial arts don't exist, and that new footage of traditional 'masters' getting wrecked by mediocre MMA fighters isn't being released every single day.



That's cool with me.

I'm not pretending anything,

your point was it rarely worked in a fight and you had evidence of that, which it now seems you haven't

what you do have is a miss staken view that challenge fights have any relivance to it's real world application in street attacks. if you were making a case that if you were attacked by a mediocre MMa fighter you might be in a spot of bother, you may have a point, but it's seems that's not the point your making at all. rather it's very unlikely to work on n any set of circumstances, which is just with out evidence at all

 

[drop bear]

This is a VERY old discussion. I'll refer to things. You'll dismiss them because they don't fit your dogmatic view.

Hey look over there is that a diversion?

I assume there was no other source in this case then.

 

[drop bear]

I'm forced to agree with this overall assessment. The interesting thing is that fighters who specialize in Bjj and were elite level in sport Bjj are coming back into vogue now and have very impressive MMA records. Kron Gracie, Mckenzie Dern, Ryan Hall, and Garry Tonon just to name a few. That's something that really shouldn't be possible at this stage in MMA's evolution, but it's happening.

Meanwhile we're seeing pretty consistent videos coming out of China of Kung Fu stylists getting utterly destroyed by sub-par MMA fighters. I mean, I really don't know how many examples we need until we finally just accept reality.

Police effectively tying up criminals on the street with the Beej?

The ability to go and spar a coach from a school to find out if he has the tools. So that they have a much better peer review program.

 

[Martial D]

I'm not pretending anything,

your point was it rarely worked in a fight and you had evidence of that, which it now seems you haven't

what you do have is a miss staken view that challenge fights have any relivance to it's real world application in street attacks. if you were making a case that if you were attacked by a mediocre MMa fighter you might be in a spot of bother, you may have a point, but it's seems that's not the point your making at all. rather it's very unlikely to work on n any set of circumstances, which is just with out evidence at all

So basically you are making the argument for Russell's Teapot.

 

[jobo]

So basically you are making the argument for Russell's Teapot.

no mate, im just asking for the evidence you said you had, if you want to quote Bertrand Russell that's fine. But you said you had it and now your trying to weasel out. I'm not sure bertrand said anything about weasels