The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sorry, to be sure 12/15 - 5/15, does this mean December? , or would it be better to schedule for california, I am very interested in your ground work, and it's always great to exchange knowledge.

From December to May, I'll be in Austin, Texas. The rest of the year I'll be in Pismo Beach, California.

I'm not a ground work expert. The side mount is my favor. Since most of the time a head lock throw will be ended on the ground (into a side mount position). To me, the ground game is a following up after the throw. I'll never drag my opponent down on purpose.

To remain balance after throwing is the major spirit of the Chinese wrestling.

 

[Gweilo]

It's completely against their culture of training. Aikido is about cooperation and harmony. That's why I made this thread.. How do you know when you made any technical progress when it's all choreography?[/QUOTE
In my experience The only way you will truely know, is by contact sparring, or you need your skills in a street situation, it depends on your current grade. If for example you was a 1st Dan or lower, I would say shut up, and listen, 2nd or 3rd Dan, I would say, try another art, or see if you can find like minded others to learn, from or test your skills, but leave the ego at home, you have to know yourself, face your fears, acknowledge them and move on, in combat you are going to get hit, yes it's great to avoid conflict, but you must beleive it's Ok to fight if you need to, what I suppose I am trying to say, if you truely know it's not you, and your training, it's time to move on.

 

[Gweilo]

From December to May, I'll be in Austin, Texas. The rest of the year I'll be in Pismo Beach, California.

I'm not a ground work expert. The side mount is my favor. Since most of the time a head lock throw will be ended on the ground (into a side mount position). To me, the ground game is a following up after the throw. I'll never drag my opponent down on purpose.

But what happens if you are invited to the floor, or taken there, not by your choice, I found a lot of tma have an inherent fear of being on the floor.

 

[dvcochran]

But if your partner resists he gets his arm broken. There is a kind of manufactured catch 22 created.

True enough. It’s not ballet class.

 

[Gweilo]

@Alan In my experience The only way you will truely know, is by contact sparring, or you need your skills in a street situation, it depends on your current grade. If for example you was a 1st Dan or lower, I would say shut up, and listen, 2nd or 3rd Dan, I would say, try another art, or see if you can find like minded others to learn, from or test your skills, but leave the ego at home, you have to know yourself, face your fears, acknowledge them and move on, in combat you are going to get hit, yes it's great to avoid conflict, but you must beleive it's Ok to fight if you need to, what I suppose I am trying to say, if you truely know it's not you, and your training, it's time to move on.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But what happens if you are invited to the floor, or taken there, not by your choice, I found a lot of tma have an inherent fear of being on the floor.

This is why the ground game should be trained no matter what style that you may come from.

 

[Gweilo]

Anyhow it's seems I have been too polite, Mr Alan seems to be a troll, with the amount of questions asked on the forum.so I will say goodnight as it's 23.30 here.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You have no idea if the technique works if the person doesn't resist and instead follows a choreographed sequence of moves.

I think we all know why they don't allow resistance.

Again though, you're completely ignoring all the people who have used wrist locks in an actual fight or competition. Sometimes without involving punches.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I wrote "not so much". The police argument has already been addressed.

I waited until i could go back to reread the thread before replying to this one, to see where it was addressed. The only argument you seemed to make was:

A police officer vs a junkie, it obviously work. Junkies aren't exactly known for their athletic prowess and keeping in shape.

Which is wrong for three reasons.
1: About half the 'junkies' I know are in better shape than the average person. And I know a lot of addicts.

2: Not everyone that gets arrested is an addict. And the repeat offenders tend to be pretty ripped-prison will do that to you.

3: A lot of police officers are not all that athletic, at least in the US.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Again though, you're completely ignoring all the people who have used wrist locks in an actual fight or competition. Sometimes without involving punches.

I stated the parameters for when a joint lock might be successfully applied. Anything other than that, I'll have to see to believe. I'm not impressed with anecdotes from "believers".

What I did post was real sparring competition between two Aikido black belts unable to joint lock each other for an entire match, under Aikido rules!. Another one of those tournaments had a judo-esque throw pulled off.. As expected, The throws work, the joint locks generally do not. Certainly not when both fighters are of the same strength.

 

[Alan Smithee]

3: A lot of police officers are not all that athletic, at least in the US.

No but they're bigger than a junkie, who might be so spaced out from drugs he won't even react normally to the joint hold.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No but they're bigger than a junkie, who might be so spaced out from drugs he won't even react normally to the joint hold.

I feel like you completely missed the first two points i posted...

 

[Dirty Dog]

No but they're bigger than a junkie, who might be so spaced out from drugs he won't even react normally to the joint hold.

This ranks as one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen posted. And that's including the days when Usenet was King.

Cops are bigger than junkies? Ridiculous. Both cops and drug abusers follow the usual bell curve for size.
One of my students, for example, is a 5'2" 120lb female police officer. If she arrests you, I do not suggest you resist.
On the other hand, last Saturday night, I took down a 6'4" 240lb guy with a penchant for meth. Quite fit.

Drugs abusers do not spend all their time high. Most don't even spend a majority of their time high. Most drugs do not affect how one responds to pain, with PCP (which I rarely see people using any more) being the big exception.

The more you post, the less you seem to know about the subjects under discussion.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The throws work, the joint locks generally do not. Certainly not when both fighters are of the same strength.

Some joint lock and throw are integrated together.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't think specific strength training is necessary if you do enough resistive grappling. I've never done much grip training, but have a stronger than average grip, because of my grappling.

That's correct if you are grappling. Strong hands and grip naturally develop that way. But I think people who get into those situations where they fail to apply against a resisting partner is because off weaker hands or because they didn't apply it correctly.

For me i would tell someone that I will put them in a wrist lock and then I would tell them to resist with all of their their strength. Then I would hit them to break that focus and then to quickly apply the lock. Some of the locks that I train go with the flow of a person reloading a punch and the counters where people grab an arm. Those are always fun and easier to apply.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't think specific strength training is necessary if you do enough resistive grappling. I've never done much grip training, but have a stronger than average grip, because of my grappling.

The grappling can only help you to develop your grip strength to a certain degree. IMO, the "equipment training" is a must.

 

[frank raud]

Funny since that is not how it's practiced. The defender never punches or kicks in Aikido, only the attacker. They don't even strike theoretically as the defender in Aikido.

I'm going to assume that the Yoshinkan style of Aikido is considered mainstream enough for you to be considered as "Aikido". There are multiple examples of strikes being used by the Tori (defender) in his books, such as Dynamic Aikido and The Master Course.

 

[Alan Smithee]

I'm going to assume that the Yoshinkan style of Aikido is considered mainstream enough for you to be considered as "Aikido". There are multiple examples of strikes being used by the Tori (defender) in his books, such as Dynamic Aikido and The Master Course.

All choreographed

 

[dvcochran]

@frank raud , you are wasting you time. This troll know everything there is to know about ALL martial arts. He has an incredible 4 years of experience.

 

[frank raud]

Wait, hold the presses! You're saying that pictures in a book are choreographed? This changes everything!