Yep. It's sort of what lots of folks do here. I can take your initial post, tweak it to add a bit of flavor, and then answer it, but I don't think you'll be any closer to a satisfying conclusion to the discussion. BTW, Merry Christmas everybody. Up on my PC with Christmas coffee in hand, awaiting the merry tinkling of little feet and my lady's sweet calls... Or not, LOL! Take Karate Man's resume as you've explained it above, really good 2nd dan, tournament circuit winner, all that. Add one word to the "type of tournament," ... KYOKUSHIN. Not the be-all, end-all of the concept, but it conveys a certain type of training for a certain type of tournament bout, i.e. no pad, full-contact. I'm sure most of you have watched youtube clips of the knockouts from those tournaments... which to me seems about right for that rule set. Yes, I get it that the street fight has no such rule set. Turn to Street Fighter (I can't stop myself from calling out that sound from the game AHRUKEN! ... stupid... sorry). If this guy, who you've indicated, "Has got dem hands..." so we'll have to say he's got "some" training of his own, even if it is only practical experience and figuring it out on a trial by fire basis, but maybe the guy next door did some boxing int he day and he's "showed him a few things," then here's where I am. They are Both trained martial artists. The one who has trained more effectively for the type of conflict they're about to get into is most likely going to win, provided that a chance misstep doesn't come into play (as it very often does. Mr. Murphy is a trickster). See? Unsatisfying.