Sparring/Fighting Drunk

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Mar 31, 2012.

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  1. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    Zenjael,

    Don't you think that you, as an instructor, and as a ... skilled individual ... have an obligation to rise above this nonsensical horseplay and prevent this from happening in all but the ideal circumstances if you can avoid it?

    I'm just ... aghast here that you try to come off so eloquently and yet ... you still take such an ignorant action.

    You may find you're taken more seriously if you arrive here with some humility ... but then, I've said that before.
     
  2. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    A conversation which will always stick in my mind, is one I had 4 years old with an 83 year old doctorate in body language, over whether Americans were ignorant or stupid. It is irrelevant what I think (America is awesome... we do have our fair share though) toward that matter, but it is not ignorant when one is aware it's a bad idea. Trust me when I say that when I walked toward this person when he first suggested it, it naturally crossed my mind. To be honest, I half expected I might really get hurt.

    That wasn't the point of why I agreed though. It wasn't to be manly, because frankly, I have nothing I feel I need to prove. It wasn't to win in a fight, because I have a firm view that there are no winners in fights. It's why even though 9 out of 10 times I know I can get a strike in (with or without power behind it) past someone's guard, I despise point sparring. Because it glorifies winning, when in reality if a martial artist must use what they know in defense, it is a tragedy. So I do not understand why we celebrate victory, but it is an archaic tradition, so w/e.

    I agreed because I did not know if I might have the opportunity to do so again. I did it so I might have a story to share with my kids, and frankly, because I just wanted to. I enjoy sparring, I enjoy fighting. I enjoy getting hit. I am not a nihilist from fight club, and I know my limits, but when I get to raise my arms against somebody truly worthy, it is something I'd pass even sex up for. I can only imagine what enlightenment feels like, lol. But that being said- I am not a fool.

    You'll note that I am not injured save for a contusion most of us get several times a year in our normal practice of the art. Had things turned ugly two roommates were nearby, one of which is over 6 feet tall, and 400 pounds. He's kinda like a gorilla, and meanwhile, we were surrounded by 3 people with 2nd dans, and another with a 3rd- all of whom are trained for all ranges of fighting, by a very reputable master in the area. Had things gone south, and they did, they were there.

    It was clear that no matter how much training this person had (minimal at best) from their stance and form, they would not hurt me. When I was put in a head-lock, I had to show him to do it properly because he could just not choke me out, and the entire time I could have just pummeled his nugs. It wasn't about winning though- it was about having fun.

    Maybe it's the irish in me coming out, I know that night it was in him, but as funny as it sounds, I actually trust him a little better from the experience.

    Me fighting somebody drunk, was not done in ignorance. It was done in deliberate, and willfull stupidity. At least give me credit he didn't get hurt, and nothing in the house did, either. I am sure many have had the fight where they know, if they wanted to, at full force like we see our action stars in the movie do, that we will triumph. And I am sure many on this board have opted to get hit, mildly, so they did not have to hurt another. A good example; I am what is often considered a non-responder, so grappling is very dangerous for me, in addition that I'm flexible. Because of this, when I grapple, people very often end up forgetting their surroundings, even about me and my well being. They get frustrated that it is difficult, I am squirly, and it can take forever to get me to the point where I should tap out. On one occasion, a person was so determined to get me while practicing jiujitsu, that he brought my arm to right under the point where it would have broken. The only reason it didn't is because, thankfully, sticky hands, so I can usually contort my body in a way which while might not escape the grab, does stop anything from braking. He kept going, and going, and nobody in the area did anything to stop, though to my anger others reported they had witnessed it. I had to strike him on the nose, first lightly, then with more force for him to finally notice my tapping out, and he to release me. And he is a Christian who is very devout, and felt very bad about the ordeal. He thought the whole time I'd been telling him to watch out for my glasses (Which were nowhere around). If I had done nothing, not tapped out, not twist through his grab, he would have, guaranteed, snapped that arm. And when he transitioned from us sparring on our feet, to the groundwork, I knew even as I saw him reach it would not be something good, because he is not experienced. So even going into that particular experience, I had a decent idea that I was likely to get hurt, and I nearly was. On the street, I'd have hit the person so hard they wouldn't know themself from the day of the week, but I would probably have lost my arm then also. The difference is I was skillful enough to stop myself from getting hurt, and didn't need to resort to excessive force to mitigate an ongoing, very harmful situation for me. I'd say maybe a slap would be better, but before bopping him on the nose I tried that. 6 ft, 275 pound kid. EEsh for me to spar with as a 5'4", no matter how fast I am.

    I do not mind getting hit. Most people are very bad at it, and those who are good at it tend to have training, which you can easily see in how they move, and in their build. I can spot a martial artist (who has been practicing since child-hood) out of a crowd as easily as I can a boxer, gymnast, dancer, and foot-ball player. We do have our own specific build, though it tends to be more deceptive, and not give the best circulation. That is a tangent however, my apologies.

    I am not going to be responding to this thread anymore. I hope those that enjoy the video, continue to do so, and those that don't, to move on. Feel free to leave input.

    I thank those who offered insight for me in how to improve, though I am regretful how often this thread feels like it devolved into a pissing contest on one side or the other now and again. I am sorry for any times I have been brash, or come off as arrogant.

    However, when joining this forum, among the first threads I posted was one which asked why people I train with had begun to stop sparring with me, and if it were because I hit too hard, or if it something which just happens when you begin to become raised in recognition within the school. Our former club president left, and that has left me as the most experienced by far of those there. I was accused, quite harshly, that I hit too hard, and need to stop doing so, and little thought was given to the actual questions I asked, and the message I was trying to give. I posted this video as a response to show that I have control over my techniques, so it is not the case I am reckless and wild when I spar. Ultimately what I've gleaned from this thread is that I apparently don't have the ability to hit hard at all, and I am still an arrogant person to boot.

    Now yes, I have my flaws, and I am 22. But I am not like other people my age. No martial artist is ever like others, and should never be looked at based on age alone. Among the cleanest head-strikes in kenjutsu I saw, was performed by a 9 year old. I will grow, and change, but this thread has informed me that to ask others for tips on how to fight, when they neither know me, and make assumptions, not only will do nothing condusive for me, it could endanger me. What I have right now works for me, where I'm at. out of 10 attempted strikes, maybe one will get through, and I am content with that amount. For I remember the days when virtually every hit got through, and I hated it.

    But, I have 0 interest in posting a video of me brutalizing the people I train with, my friends. And when people tell me I cannot strike hard, apart from words the only response I can give is a video showing how I can- but if people want to see others getting hit hard, they should just watch the ip man scene vs black belts over and over. I am not on that level of skill. In martial arts there are a number of stages people hit. First they learn, then they know, then they have insight and experience and ability, and then they teach and create. Additionally, every martial artist goes through spiritual stages. We all were initiatives with little understanding of how important the spiritual side of martial is to the art itself. Eventually we awaken, and begin to really train, at least compared to how we were before. Then we gain wisdom- we learn how the techniques should be used, when, and not to waste our energy. And then a lucky few begin to hit the stages which come next. I remember the moment when I awakened, almost like a light-switch from the lethargic practitioner I had been for years. It was because of a cartoon show of all things which gave me the resolve to actually learn how to defend myself. It took a mugging for me to begin seeking how to PRACTICALLY defend myself, haha.

    I wish I knew what came after enlightenment, but I don't even think I'm there yet. If there is anything I am in martial arts, it is knowledgeable. I am young, and a lot of people seem to forget that. 19 years is a drop in the bucket in terms of experience, perfection is impossible by how most people define it, so if I cannot be perfect, I am happy to settle for being good, and capable of handling myself. I am at these boards because at my heard I am a philosopher, a thinker, and so have come to speak with other people who may be like minded, and to me martial arts is my spirituality. I am at a point in my life where in the next year I'll be off to basic, and probably war. I can worry about perfecting my techniques and teachings after I survive however many tours I get sent on.

    I somehow have given off the air that I think I am perfect, and better than others. But even if I was, I wouldn't care about it. The only thing I want to be better than, is who, and what I currently am, no matter how bad, or good, that person is.

    And I don't define better by what others tell me is, necessarily, though I am willing to listen.

    Peace to you all, I hope you enjoy the video. The lack of hitting is not us throwing techniques out, it is us being, as how we were taught, gentlemanly toward each other. Cause the school where I met Alec, and we hailed from, if you gave someone a bruise for being excessive in contact, you would be stupid not to expect to receive something multitudes worse from someone else in the school. Because I was a 3rd dan already, when I tested for my first Dan in that specific style of TKD, instead of sparring 1st dans as would normally be the case, my 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, and 1v4 was with all 3rd dans, and I will be quite honest in saying when it came to ability, a 3rd dan from that school would be equivalent to a 4th or even 5th at other schools, as strange as that is to hear. Khans people were viscious, and I got my bum whooped.

    In the end this bled over to our sparring, and for me, my view of how to treat others when practicing. If you know you can brain someone, do you need to hit someone hard when sparring, when you already know the issue of hitting like you're sparring during survival, no longer is one? I don't think so. Plus, there's great fun to be had in stopping the technique an inch from the target. It gets the same message across, without any necessary pain. I'm not worried about the people I train with being able to take a hit- conditioning, and holding targets is for that in my opinion, when done correctly.

    Peace to you all, I had 0 intentions of glorifying myself with this video. I made it for a group of friends who are into molly and acid, hence the color scheme. This is not the final form of the video; I just grew really impatient as the program I used sucked (you get what you pay for) while people online I actually listened to were at the same time telling me that I both hit too hard, and was pompous. So I tried to correct that. It's only in hindsight I realize there was nothing to correct, that coming to the table and declaring I had something to give was the improper manner; for as a discussion board, when done politely, no one's input will be turned away. Disgussed, pitted, but ultimately both walk away with concrete opines for themself, with repect with each other still. My mistake was in assuming that I had anything at all to teach, because I failed to see that in saying such a thing, others might see that as me also saying I am better, or have greater insight than them. I am sorry for coming across that way, and I hope others can forgive me for my ignorance as I continue to improve on it.

    Teaching is not something like selling apples, which I realize I had considered it a bit to be like. While teachers may accept students, it is the latter who chooses the teacher. I do not think my experience worthless though, so where my words can be condusive, and are appropriate, I will post.

    I will post the finalized form afterward. I think I'll end up including throws, grabs, joint-locks among other things. This is not a video about how to fight, but I do hope that others ignore the responses in this thread, and others begin to post videos of themselves sparring. It's ok to not be perfect, to even look bad- everyone was there at some point.

    Chances are good, given I'm still here, that in 30 years I'll look back on my posts here, and in comparison to where I am then, will laugh.

    That's what martial arts is about anyways right, breaking a leg?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  3. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Enough. Now you discuss philosophy as a child with the teachers. If you claim you moved to Northern Virginia riding on a donkey, that's it.

    Luke 2:45-47

    and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking him.

    After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions;

    and all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.


    I think the Church of Alex needs to find a new dwelling.
     
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  4. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    I'm Irish. I don't seek this crap out. Mmmph. Yeah, I'm done.
     
  5. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    Alex this post has to have been some sort of record. Well done! :asian:
     
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  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Alex, if and when you get to Afghan please let me know so I can warn our guys, they love a good laugh.
     
  7. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for mentioning this. I have read this entire thread, and can't believe how people are acting towards him. Yes, he was being stupid, he already admitted that. Yes, he's a bit arrogant, but hes 22 and has practiced martial arts for over a decade, I'm sure any of you who did that were also arrogant, and its not necessarily a bad thing. Help him out, chastise him a bit but don't ridicule him! And don't pick apart what he wrote just because it isn't the most coherent thing ever. It's pretty easy to get what he's trying to say, so just leave it be. By doing things like this, you're basically cyber bullying him and giving a bad name to martial artists everywhere! Ordinarily, i don't post on here, but the way you guys are acting towards him is just so unbelievable i had to. I still can't believe you would act this way towards a martial artist who is still maturing. Remember what you were like then and just cut the **** already
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
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  8. WC_lun

    WC_lun Senior Master

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    Alex, to be fair, you were not fighting. You were sparring or playing around. There is a difference. To start, fighting is serious business and you don't go into it with ego leading the way.
     
  9. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    You may have read the entire thread but have you read the other dozen or so threads that Alex has posted on. If you follow the threads he makes huge claims. Just off the top of my head, 19 years of TKD (read what TKD people say about his thoughts ... but in the early posts was Nidan, now Sandan), black belt Shodan in Shotokan karate (admitted in post he has no rank at all), I think it was 5 years of Krav Maga (no formal training at all), highly trained and teaches 'Okinawan' karate (didn't even know the style was Shorin Ryu) and claims to be trained and taught classes under a teacher called Murray but says this guy wouldn't remember him if we contacted him, expert in 'Shishi' Bagua and is now possibly Grandmaster because he is the only student after his teacher died (to the best of our knowledge 'Shishi' Bagua does not exist). ('Shi' Bagua does but that style doesn't fit with Alex's claims) claims to have trained three years Aikido but has no concept of aiki principles, claims his Bagua teacher is an expert in Daito Ryu (the two styles are not really compatible. Claims to be an experienced street fighter but in an earlier post says he was last mugged when he was 16 and he will be different next time.

    Everybody started of kind and friendly, but let's call a spade a bloody shovel. The guy is a fake.

    You say it is cyber bullying but Alex continues to post erroneous information, make claims that cannot be substantiated and just outright lie on occasions. If he stops posting drivel people will stop commenting but if we allow drivel to be posted unchallenged then that drivel can become fact in the minds of less proficient martial artists. To be honest, I just wish he would go away!
     
  10. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Like I said, I was married, running a nuclear power plant, going to school, and expecting my first child-kid gets no slack from me, unless he really is off his meds......
     
  11. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    I have to say that there are some people here who have asked a lot of questions of Zenjael, tried discussing theory with him, we've asked questions, received interesting and conflicting answers and stories ... there are certain things that are evident.

    Though I don't disagree that he should be given the attention he deserves ... little.
     
  12. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    I'm thinking he needs medical attention....
     
  13. Kenlee25

    Kenlee25 Green Belt

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    I can't believe I just read this entire thread....

    Dude, Zenjeal, WHY ARE YOUR POSTS SO LONG O.O!!!

    Also, I'm 18. I've been a martial artist for 11 years now in TKD, and i'm only 5'6/5'7 ish. I'm younger than Zenjeal, only slightly taller AND i've still had over a decade of training and I still find what Zen says sometimes to be to put it lightly....off. and I'd never spar a drunk guy. I'll spar someone sober sure. Bring it on. Just as long as the rules are set down before hand and we know the safety words etc etc. It will will test my skills and hopefully show me where I can improve ( as well as build up my pain tolerence ) but i'd NEVER spar with a drunk/high person. Safety pretty much goes out the window. I don't mind being hit...but if **** hits the fan then I may have just screwed myself over.

    Also, i'll only spar with someone who is worthy of my trust. I won't spar you just to prove I can beat you, we at least need to be friends first. Talk a little, maybe take me out to dinner before we commence with the punching!
     
  14. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I just read his other threads and realized what you are referring to. My apologies. From this thread, it seemed like a 22 year old made a simple, stupid mistake, and posted about it to help others learn from it and everyone went bat crazy on him...now i realize that was wrong, and i misjudged. Once again, my sincere apologies.
     
  15. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    There are a lot of really good people here and it takes a lot to get them riled. You'll enjoy the camarardarie here but just at the moment some of us natives are restive. :wink1:
     
  16. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Today I spoke with my teacher, Master Khan, and asked him honestly if there was anything I could do to improve my humility. He was surprised by the question and told me that the entire reason he had accepted me as a student, despite coming from another school, was because of how I asked. That I did not come before him, with my 3rd dan, as a 3rd dan. I came as any other student when first starting, and even gave up a martial art I had practiced my entire life so I could better learn, and retain chung do kwan. And once I did, I returned to my former style, and found its kicks vastly complementative toward chung do kwan and the other arts I have practiced. I have found, on here, in life, sometimes we act in ways, or phrase things in such a fashion without realizing it, and I am certain I am guilty of this. Martial artists are a passionate people by their innate nature, and as such, one can easily get burned by fire. They are both analytical, and critical, which can be a stinging combination when combined in regards to teaching. It is easier to bruise someone's feelings I have found in the art, and repair them by ritually humbling oneself by bowing or apologizing, or stating one's own inadequacies, than it is in actuality to bruise someone.

    This sensitivity protects the arts from blurring together into one big mesh, as could easily occur down the road. While I encourage mixing of martial arts, I only do so if the person can still differentiate between the two arts, where they are coming from, and that they actually know and understand the art enough to use it, either in sparring or self-defense.

    I do not mind their negative criticisms as much as I did. When joining the boards the colors and symbols assigned to accounts were very misleading as they often denoted rank where it is not appropriate. I heard my 6th dan teacher give one of his long exhales when I mentioned there are people sporting the title-grandmaster as an identifiable part of who they are on the board. He had a good response for me, and it in many ways clears up why the response to me, here, has been so different from the actual experiences I have had as a martial artist, in person.

    A person who is truly confidant, but has no provable way to back up their claims, will always come off as arrogant. Because I have no way to back these claims up, and because I am not perfect, or Bruce Lee, or famous, or a mod, people can easily pick at what I am doing wrong, without even having to know themselves what is proper in regards to the techniques being criticized. While many on this board would like to think what they have told me in how to improve is constructive criticism, it is solely just the latter. Explaining the mechanics of a technique is not teaching me how to rectify my error, which while assumed, could be very real. Chris Parker offered a decent explanation for how to improve a kick I have... which was identical to how my first teacher explained it, who I eventually left for being a poor teacher. That has nothing to do with Chris, save that he assumed his instructing of the method to kick would rectify my error. You can get that from a book, a brochure even, and especially google. That is not a teacher. Chris did not ask if I had a prior injury, nor did he even inquire what style of push-kick I was attempting to do. Was it TKD's, or Karate? If either, which style is it then? This is incredibly relevant toward learning an art. The fact such information was never sought shows less Chris' intent to help me actually improve, and moreso to prove his own ability, or at least tear mine down publicly. Hence why I often ignore his posts, though try to respond. The are couched in words which say they are trying to help me, while the words themselves tailored to tear as much up as possible. The problem is, when people who are much more experienced than them have offered actually constructive insight to how I might improve, in a way I can, I have no reason to pay the negative comments from people like Chris any mind. If I do, it only validates them, and even worse, as you have pointed out my name IS on the line. This is my profession, and this forum has heart me financially. Because of it in large part I no longer work for Kaizen, though the split was a mutual decision. Driving half a state away for a school I respected less than the one I left Khan's for never jived right with me, I just really enjoyed teaching, and as a student it afforded me that opportunity.

    But martial arts is not my career- and anyone who makes it theirs is sick in my mind to take something which is pure, untainted until we put our own spins and biases on it, as a means to profit. I have never charged more than $30 for any lesson of mine, and no matter what private I have held, or class, I always let people who wanted to try it out, to join in. I charged money, not because I wanted to buy a new belt (though I would like to) but because I need to eat, and I hardly do as is on the pay of someone who is 22 and currently non-employed as a full-time student. You don't eat, you can't train, the way I see it.

    I have noticed a few things from this forum, and it has occurred to me since day 1 that considering I chose this board for it being among the largest, it is also among the most seen. This does not mean it is the most influential however, to people who truly live and breath the art. But to people who are not martial artists, people who might agree with me, or even with aspects of what I have said, the behavior of those toward the differing view does not advocate any kind of 'correctness' in martial arts- it just shows one group accusing one person of arrogance, without realizing that their accusation in the first place is far more arrogant than anything the other has actually said. It takes real bravery to stand up to multiple confident people online, when it seems like so many have reached a consensus already. As you have done, as Jenna have done. You are the kind of martial artists, like Oaktree, I was hoping to find here. People like you, and me, are the type who value martial arts as above being just a system of fighting, it is a very way of thought and living.

    Most of the people who have spoken with me on the boards, while civil, have not been kind. I do not think how I say things actually comes off well here, only that I sincerely believe them, which either means they do not understand what I am trying to say, . When I am better able to say it, I will be ready to, I suppose. I am 22, they do not have to listen to me, no one does. When I am older, and if people seek out my opinion, I will always be happy to give it. They do not recognize that by constantly agressively criticising me, and by not responding, it is no longer me who is getting attacked, it is themselves at that point as they reveal themselves for who they actually are.

    What is mistaken for arrogance is very badly expressed confidance. Trust me, I do not think myself great. But I do know who I am, and what I can do, and what my teacher's standards still are. When I have been brutalized in the name of not only my master, but my very belt, it becomes more than a belt, but your identity, and the belt itself loses its significance, because at Khans you hadn't been given a belt, as many martial artists are today, especially in the states. You had received an initiation for life, and the people from our school are bowed to because we are known in this area as being notable fighters. But we also bow to each other, because we understand that the teacher we shared under Chung Do Kwan, in burke, had more depth than most artists will experience. It was what drew me to the school over and over, and believe me, I checked out well over 20 schools before making the change. And once I had, I commited and never backed down. From 4:00 PM I would show up, before the school opened, and help Master Khan clean it. Sometimes there were others to speak with him, or do the same. We were never asked, it was voluntary, and I don't think I've ever been as greatful to scrub a toilet. Not because I have some kind of veneration for him- I have seen crap, and I have seen gold, and he was platinum in a field of dog turds, and still is.

    You do not, and will not see me stating I am better than anyone on here, merely my own responses to their replies on how they might do a certain thing against what I had done from an earlier post. For me to do so is an abhorrant behavior on my part, because I frankly don't want to come off unbecoming on behalf of my own teachers. I think many forget that what they read reflects not only on them, their style, and martial arts as a whole, but their teachers. I have written a lot I haven't, my hand stayed by asking if what I had written, You do not see me questioning the background of anyone's teacher, nor their employ, or their style. I did not think to do of such a thing, firstly because I had been taught that such audacity might actually end up with them proving it on you, and further, that there are more styles we haven't heard of, than currently exist in the entire world. The fact that other artists here cannot see the humility in me not trying to test their mettle, because of own fallibilities and disinterest in conflict, tells me moreso that the people who are responding in such fashion do so for their own selfish reasons. Keep in mind it is rarely my words themselves which offer offense, but more likely what I am perceived as saying... which isn't the same thing.

    I am hopeful that what I do, not what I say will set an example at this point for other people. Let them destroy you, or try to, even when they don't mean to or realize they are, for it is only when you embrace your flaws can you then let them go, and improve. It is only when you confront their intention will you find yours eventually able to withstand.

    As near as I can tell

    Anytime intoxicants are involved, there is a wild card. That wild card instantly takes the severity from anything intended to be playful, and ups it by several magnitudes. For someone who is cognizant, and practiced, trust me when I say I went into the situation prepared to go to the hospital, and did everything in my ability to make that happen. When he began to up the ante, I did not respond. I went downstairs and smoked some hookah, watched Avatar, and wrote the post.

    I mean, if it was just sparring, or play, do you really think this conversation would go on so long, and people below my rank would call me an idiot? It's helpful that I called myself one too, and I was aware of the fact. But when you act stupidly, deliberately, there might... just... be that alterior motive. Who are you to assume what was mine? Maybe I just really wanted to fight a drunk. Or maybe the conversation here sparked self-doubt in my ability. Who knows, who cares. A drunk hit me after 3 rounds, I never hit him once. Nor did I ever throw a strike, to be honest. I let him have his fun, and when he began to at my expense, I moved on. A small cut and minor swelling on the lip is far less than I've received before, and far less than I am owed my own fair share and due.

    I concur. The stories which conflict are because, in part I am both active, but also because for a historian I am remarkably bad at keeping track of the dates I do my own things. By my own accord I threw away the box containing my 3rd dan from WTF TKD, and while most might see it stupid- I do not need a piece of paper to prove who I am, and what others have honored years before. By my own accord I started between 2-4, if you want to be really technical. I prefer to say 4, since that's when they cut the lil-dragon kind of crap you see today which is like pre-skool for martial arts. More shill, more bull, and ultimately, just a day-care with people advertising themselves as some kind of uber-warrior.

    And... there's a lot I've forgotten, too. The bulk of most people's training occurs during the period of their life between 10-30, and it is these 20 formative years which oft prove the most influential, just as our earliest years and starting point, affected everything else which came after. My first 20 years of training occurred between 4-22, well before the range of what most people remember. This does not mean I've forgotten in the traditional sense however, it means I have done as all people do with their childhoods; I incorporated the memories I had 'forgotten' into who I am. Memories are chemical information we take on to make sure we don't forget to include this or that in our experience of existing; our youngest, most formitive memories should not be remembered, they should be included most as to who we are today, so we never lose that foundation which is what makes us who we are. The first 10 years of martial arts for me was my childhood, and I learned WTF TKD. I was not a great student, but I learned to become one to respect, on my own, without any teacher. That is why when I finally found a teacher who I could respectfully refer to as that, he saw that in me. Anyone who meets me will see why they will respect me, not why they should. Those years were incredibly formative, and could have been moreso elsewhere in all likelihood.

    Though I don't disagree that he should be given the attention he deserves ... little.[/QUOTE]

    I think anybody, no matter what they have to offer, if their presence or demeaner causes problems should be ignored. I do not think anything I have said, however, warrants the reaction I've received here. This does not mean they should leave, or they cannot change. But it does mean that the more people provoke them to reply, they will, and the circle will continue. If it really is the fact I am unable to do martial arts as I claim, what then it the benefit toward repeating it like mantra, everytime I speak? It becomes churlish after awhile. It reminds me of when I was between the ages of 6-12 when I was bullied a lot. I was small then, as I am now. I learned, in time, that if you just let go of what they are saying to hurt you, not because they are wrong, but because you can always improve, it casts what they are trying to convey in a different light completely. That's what intentions can do, when they are viewed by someone other than person doing the intending. I do not think most on here have considered, as you have, how they have come across to others. I do not think they care, if this were my career, that it could be effectively ended. Certainly the mod's behavior of removing any reputation I receive is rather indicatory that there is no way to raise my 'reputation'... on the largest martial arts forum on earth. I swear I watch in either the morning or night, I will get

    The simple fact any contention from a disagreement probably warrants I be given attention on these boards by those who actually care to give it to me. To be honest, the cruelty of others is still justification of oneself. Imagine if you were in my shoes, how this has appeared from my pov. Do I think they are humiliating me? Perhaps, if this forum were the end all of martial arts and the career. If my name was one tied solely to martial arts, and if I really didn't have varifiable ability, I might actually be bothered by the negative comments. But to be honest, their responses have revealed to me people I consider martial artists from the rest. Some are good, some are bad, but it is their attitude which is what tells me that the others should be spending less time detrimenting my comments, and speaking with people such as Cyrianus, Jenna or Oaktree, who have given me the time of day.

    To K-man, though you may have such a personal bias, I hope it doesn't make conversation impossible. There are many martial artists I have called brother or sister, despite how little I liked them, approved of their attitude, or ability. A forum is about that discussion; about having the freedom to disagree. To be honest, it hasn't occurred to you that the philosophy of martial arts I hold is one very common to this area. Maybe it is even a unique feature, I have never actually dived into that kind of philosophical consideration within martial arts with anyone not from the east coast, so perhaps it is a regional difference.

    The drivel I post might be such to you, but your methods of varification of my ability, and background, is to frankly just net-negative reply to virtually everything I say. None of you have trained with me, and rather than actually go at length to obtain the information, a quick googling will suffice, and if who I mentioned isn't pulled up, than I must be a fraud. There are five such individuals who if I want negative deconstructive criticism, I'd go right on here. And they are the type of people I would not recommend as a teacher. Those who focus on fault, and not what is currently growing will never actually see their fields grow.

    It is comical, to me, that you would like me to leave when you have helped foster a system where I can't. Where in this forum people who leave, or are banned are considered defeated, as opposed to the failure on the forums part which it actually is, and anyone of integrity can see. When you host an open setting for people to communicate freely, and then ban anyone for doing so, speaks less on the part of the forum's than it does the poster they are actually banning. Having effectively attacked not only me, but my employer, my teachers, and the very area itself in regards to its MA culture... how can I leave? Would you, when the alternative is to have your teacher disparaged? When your own life goal in regards to martial arts is not only to have yourself remembered, but the Capitol region as well for its martial arts, as Foshan, Okinawa, and San Francisco are today, and as D.C. deserves. Though I have left my employer, or they left me because of the negative contact from this forum (frankly it doesn't matter to me which), I am only 22, and the road I have traveled is still long to go. I am lucky it is.

    And to be honest, my opinion doesn't matter, since I'm not their teacher, who is responsible for how they will grow and develop in the art.

    But I should note this; one thing which attracted my attention was how often thanks rise, for me and generally what I've noticed compared to the rest, in comparison to the reputation. I have noticed everyday my thanks go up, while my rep down, even when it is awarded multiple times a day. At some point when handed a handicap, you just ignore it.

    You would think though, when others go months without it being raised, and mine is apparently daily, that at least they shouldn't deliberately attempt to keep the rep lowered. At that point it's coming off less as actual reputation, and moreso as illwill on their behalf. Heck, I think I've had a few times where I've received a reputation mark, checked back when I got home from GMU, and found another notification hours later that I had been given a demerit for something else. When there is a system in place where the people who determine what reputation you have get a notification... and if they disagree, it is quite a simple matter to look for the post which angered the most people (through either personal opine, or the one requesting a reputation demerit) and one can see the inherent flaws in such a system for people like me. I am not accusing however, merely stating how it has come off to me, in relation to my responses. I would accuse, if I cared enough to, but my reputation on a single martial art board, governed more by underbelts with the title 'grand-master' next to them for sheer quantity of posts (even if of quality) than for any actual reputation. You know who deserves that kind of ranking? I don't, at least on this board. I've spoken with apprently many masters, yet only a few people I myself would consider so, based upon their depth of insight into the art.

    I have noticed, also, others coming to speak for me until others have browbeat them into silence. I am well aware that being controversial there are those who in part agree and keep silent for fear of being reprimanded themself. I am curious to see how your treatment will go, but because you post so infrequently, and I hope you do not let this affect you on a personal level, I do not expect to see the same as I have. The fact though that I am apparently very similar to other people who were banned is something which was less indicative to me of what they did, as boards are always banning people, especially big ones, and moreso the poor attitude on behalf of the poster who still held onto their dislike of that person, enough that they let it affect how they responded to someone completely different.

    I imagine whenever I move from here someday I will review what I wrote. I hope in 20 years I won't be too embaressed by my words, though some I am sure will make me blush, but I also hope in 20 years the people on this board won't regret their words either. It is incredible, for all the ill action I have committed (I have deliberately avoided critiquing a style as good or bad. I think some have more developing to do, but all are just systems of thought which, for some work better than others.) how much I have received.

    This forum has altered my view of martial arts greatly, something I treasure and hold more dear than my own life. My shishi bagua training has stayed my hand before from enlisting, but will not any longer. This forum has changed my view that you can treat google as if like casting questions into the nether, and actually getting responses. It has changed my view of martial arts, in that I had become naive in thinking the respect practiced by a group of college students, half of which are former convicts I might add, is more humble than that here. I do not speak any differently here than I do there, to any of them. and I respect, and care for them all dearly. But you see- a lot of martial arts is about that confrontation, and casting it aside. Distance I think is the greatest harbinger of illwill in martial arts, and if you ever want to see a bond between teacher and student get crushed, watch in the long term what happens when the teacher decides to retire. Many of Khan's students revile the man, and even attend a school which was founded out of spite of him, by former students. When they opened their doors in Burke, well within what would be considered a respectable range to place another school when one already exists, teaching the same style, they stood outside of Khans and handed out fliers to his students for the new dojo. Fortunately only about 20 students had such a difference of opinion with Master Khan they felt the need to leave, and they were not missed. And to put it in perspective, they received such in-depth training that when Khan's closed, in terms of fighting, they became second best. Khan's stopped competing years ago, and they cleared house normally when they went. You know why they stopped? When they began to see students judged by their own students or teachers, despite objections, and when sparring the entire school walked out in disgust when at the same tournament they were denied wins because of biased calls. It wasn't a conspiracy or anything, that's just what tournaments are like in the area, and Khans gave them the finger because of it. He had more than enough students to hold his own tournaments, with student head counts at above 200+ regularly.

    I see a lot of the sickness which has corrupted the hearts of his former students, when at the same time the entire reason they are there is because of his teaching them. Humility is not something you can associate with age, it is something we can associate with experience. I have met an 8 year old who I found to be enlightened than the mystic of 74 years who sat next to him, and was his student. The boy thanked ME for giving him the time of day to listen to what he had to say. And his words changed my life, at least in regards to buddhism and Zen. I am certain he thanks everyone in this fashion. I have masters in the arts who could learn perspective and attitude from someone who is now 11.

    I hope others can make that step- to ask to learn from a child, as an adult, when there is actually learning to be done. I made my father proud in asking a young, but experienced girl to teach me kendo when first beginning. To me, asking those who know is not a matter of height or age. They know, and it is apparent to anyone else who does, when they do. But words are never enough in martial arts. Never.

    This coming from the individual who in their signature remarks that heroes are born when cornered, makes me strongly rethink considering their words.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  17. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Read it again. :rolleyes:

    And, seriously, dude? The person who posted this:


    makes me think they're either the greatest troll of all time, or in need of psychiatric care.

    I mean, you won't take a couple of kicks to the leg and punches to the chest, but you immersed your hand-that you cut out of anxiety in bleach??

    Get help now. Seriously.
     
  18. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    OMG.

    You have the patience to read these novella-like posts deeply. I missed this.

    Zenjael, he is right. All joking and reprimand aside, You need to get help. Please, please seek some psychiatric attention.
     
  19. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    I have bitten my nails since I was 5. I wouldn't chide you for the one thing you chose to keep to remind you why self-control is important. Read that again, you chose to retain as a habit. And I no longer do it, because I also had the habit for another reason- conditioning. I have never had the nails to reinforce my fingers when grabbing, and have learned to compensate by attaining a stronger grip. Now that I have nails, I have found that improved vastly (remember, I have been doing rock-climbing, and bouldering since about 10) my grip. What you see as weakness, I saw as beneficial, and my finger strength shows for it. But think about it- For almost 2 decades I constantly ripped open the flesh and muscle whenever I felt nervous, which I'll be honest is often. What you see as proof of my inability, I've used to my advantage as a means to strengthen my fingers in a way they never could be.

    Sure, it is questionable if that is smart. But my point is this- your response does nothin but reaffirm my own view, and the person above who spoke of how I am being lombasted. When your response to me questioning your input, because you correlate heroism with violence, is one which then personally targets me, and my own deficiencies, rather than address my point, it only detracts from yours.

    If you would like, I can have a 6th, 7th, and 5th dan respectively give you an opinion on how your response looks. I take it you've never stuck your hand into something by mistake. I've also put pepper in my eye. We aren't at our brightest, when youngest.

    To anyone else; I bit my nails. And? Rather than treat it as something debilitating I kept my habit and trained around it. I now, in hindsight that I've kicked it, can recognize its strengthened my fingers more than even jabbing techniques against stone has. So, it wasn't for nothing.

    Trust me, I never hurt myself deliberately. I just at times haven't paid attention, and paid for it.
     
  20. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    Dude. You know what? You're hard to take seriously about ANYTHING. I simply have to think you're either ill or posting this manifesto deliberately. In either case, I have to support you get some help. You make things seem one way and then back-pedal when called on it and it cycles over and over and over.

    Stop. Please.
     
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