South American Martial Arts?

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Gaucho

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Thanks Arthur for letting me know about this thread.

I am originally from Argentina. More importantly, my Dad spent much of his time growing up on his Grandad's ranch and had an opportunity to learn much from his Grandad, his uncles, and the other gauchos that worked the ranch.

I trained with my dad in Esgrima Criolla- the Gaucho style of knifefighting- throughout my youth.

Esgrima Criolla was very much influenced by the Spanish Style of Swordmanship. The Gauchos essentially translated Spanish Rapier, Rapier and Dagger, and Espada Ancha (broadsword) work to the long knife (facon o daga), the double knife, the long knife and quirt (rebenque), the long knife and poncho, and the long knife and bolo.

Esgrima Criolla (EC) is more point (estocada o punalada) oriented than edge oriented, although naturally all the usual slashes, rips, hooks, and so on are utilized as the situation demands. The knife is held lightly in forward grip until the moment of impact. EC also emphasizes the snapcut (hachazo) to the head, and the backcut (rebes).

EC footwork is very Spanish in form, following the dictates of Carranza and Thibeault's Circle. It is subtle and deceptive, using changes in cadence and direction while walking around the circle to create misalignments in time and space that allow for entry. Shuffling, crossover stepping, angular stepping, coil stepping, lunging, En Quadrada, Passada baha are all utilized.

Many enganyos are also used to create momentary gaps in the opponent's defenses.

In different regions of Argentina, slightly different styles prevailed. Some Gauchos only fought single knife, others always double knife, others always knife in strong hand, rebenque in weak hand, others still with the poncho partially wrapped around the weak hand.

I hope this gives you guys an idea of how my ancestors fought.

Best Regards,

Mario
 
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arnisador

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When fighting single knife in this system, do you make use of the empty hand or do you keep it out of the way, fencing-style?
 
G

Gaucho

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Arnisador :),

As I'm sure you know, the knife dictates the fight. The gaucho's knives- the Facon and the Daga- are long (12"- 16" blades), thin, with a foible and forte, and fully guarded. They encourage a type of largo range modified swordplay where the live hand comes into play much less than with short blades.

Best Regards,

Mario
 
G

Gaucho

Guest
If any of you have ever had the opportunity to put on the fencing masks and cross parrying daggers with Jim Keating or one of his senior guys, visualize that. Then imagine Maestro Ramon Martinez of the Spanish School of Rapier dueling. Esgrima Criolla falls between those two.

Mario
 
G

Gaucho

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Oh, FYI, if you guys want to see what an Argentine Rebenque looks like, click on the link to my instructor's profile below. In the picture, I am holding a rebenque in the left hand and my incredible Hossom Duelist in the right hand. The Duelist looks much like a Facon.

The rebenque's strap is wrapped around the left hand, leaving the handle (cabo) which is of dense wood covered in rawhide, free to swing like a mace. The rebenque is chambered as I have it in the pic over the shoulder, or simply hanging from the hand.

The rebenque is used to parry the adversary's blade, attack his blade arm, or his head. It will easily crack a skill and many were killed that way. Some gauchos were even known to prefer their rebenques to their knives.

Mario
 
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arnisador

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Thanks, as a Filipino martial artist I find this very interesting--there are so many similarities. In the FMA we say that the weapons training leads to empty-hand skill--do you feel the same in Esgrima Criolla?

It looks like you've studied a great many arts--it must be difficult to fit in a physician's schedule. What do you consider your primary system?
 
G

Gaucho

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You're more than welcome. Its nice to share a bit of my heritage with interested individuals.

I complete agree with you that the principles learned in blade work translate completely to EHs. The opposite is does not hold.

As far as long blade work teaching EHs skills, I have no doubt that this is true. Just look at JKD, which is clearly fencing based. The way my dad taught me to fight EHed, however, was kind of a streetfighter's boxing style with elbows, knees, and lowline kicks thrown in. It was how he had learned to fight EHed over the years, but he did not relate it back to the bladework per say. He was very good with improvised weapons and showed me many a good trick that saved my *** several times. Clearly this came from his blade training.

What are my primary arts now? Well, that's hard to say. I am at this point along my path most interested in discovering the universal principles of combat which underlie and transcend any one style or system. If I had to pin myself down, I guess that I would have to say it really depends on what I'm doing/teaching. Short blade I definitely use Amok! principles- they're the best I've ever learned. Long knife I use bowie or EC depending on how good my opponent is. Sword depends on the type of sword obviously. Stick is an amalgem of Doce Pares, LAMECO, and Amok!. EHs is whatever works in the flow of the moment, but clearly at this point in my training I prefer Kuntao and Silat, with a goodly portion of Fu Jow, Amok! Analytical Combatives, and what Systema I've learned to date sprinkled in. I make an effort to practice the curriculum of each art in sequence so that I can still teach each pure art if asked, but I am definitely a mutt when it comes to using them :D.

Am I busy between work as a doc, as medical director of my group, my family, my training, and my teaching? There aren't enough hours in a day sometimes. But, I was training before I even knew what training is, so I can't be me without it.

Pardon my rambling.

Best Regards,

Mario
 
I

Infight

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Originally posted by DJDragon
Would anyone call Vale Tudo a Brazillian Martial Art?

Vale Tudo is a type of competiton, not a martial art, but there are places here in Brazil that you can train for Vale Tudo
 
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Infight

Guest
Originally posted by Morpheus
There's also Luta Livra which is basically no-gi submission wrestling. Brazillian jiu jutsu was too expensive for a lot of people to afford, so they went and trained in this this style instead.

If a Luta Livra fighter was successful in competitions, he would usually use some of the money to then go and buy BJJ lessons in a good academy.

There is a lot of competition between the two styles in Brazil, with LL generally being associated with quite humble beginnings.

HAHA, Luta Livre is Wrestling in Portuguese, and its not that cheap here to pratice, there are just few places to do it, but indeed there are champs of grappling that guys of wrestling get in
 
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Infight

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Hi Gaucho, thats cool to have an Argentino here, hope to see you in other posts, just hope youre not a Boca Juniors Fan, lol, see you
 
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Infight

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Hey Taiyando dont count, its some crazy brazilian guy who tried to copy tae kwon do, and to some graps on it, ridiculous.
if that count, there are a lot of martial arts here like: EQUIDO, DUAL SYSTEM, SUBMISSION JIU-JITSU FIGHTING, and a lot of that "created" martial arts, that will dissapear in a few years, ever created just to gather money, usually BJJ teachers that couldnt get fame or students, than created some other martial art to gather newbies on MA, to take their money, as happen all over the world.
 
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Infight

Guest
Originally posted by arnisador
Would people consider South American martial arts like capoeira Western martial arts? Does it matter whether they are indigenous arts as opposed to systems like BJJ, which is a Judo variant?

I'd have to say that capoeira is a Western martial art, myself.

I must desagree. Capoeira is a martial art created on Brazil, it was done by sons of slaves from Africa, but a long time after being here, they mixed some dancing from their fathers with some martial objective, so to disguise their training ( cause if the lord of the place saw the go punished ), they pretended to be dancing and among it they kept praticing CAPOEIRA.
 
F

FDVargas0351

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There is a knife system which has a very good reputation in the knife community that comes from Argentina. The art was used by the Gauchos, or argentinian cow boys. There is an excellent but hard to find book on the subject entitled escrima criolla.
 
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arnisador

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We've had some posts on Argentinan knife fighting before. The Search command should turn up a few.
 
B

Bigodinho

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ThuNder_FoOt said:
I also consider capoeira a western art, as it originated in Africa. Technically, this art is referred to as Afro-brazillian, due to the change of the art from Portugeuse influence. Any capoeristas out there?:asian: :asian:
I am a capoeirista. If there are any questions on the art, please ask.
 
S

Snowmeow

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Infight said:
Hey Taiyando dont count, its some crazy brazilian guy who tried to copy tae kwon do, and to some graps on it, ridiculous.
if that count, there are a lot of martial arts here like: EQUIDO, DUAL SYSTEM, SUBMISSION JIU-JITSU FIGHTING, and a lot of that "created" martial arts, that will dissapear in a few years, ever created just to gather money, usually BJJ teachers that couldnt get fame or students, than created some other martial art to gather newbies on MA, to take their money, as happen all over the world.
First, Taiyando don'y try to copy Tae Kwon Do, but is raised from the earlier Tai'Yang Karate-Do. It is always evoluting, being this the reason of the new name.
Second, this "crazy Brazilian Guy" is a Master who teaches his art since 1975. A lot of time, not?
Third, I never heard about this "Dual System". And I don't know nothing about Equi-do and new Jiu-Jitsu fighting styles to spread untruths, as you do.
Fourth, you NEVER should to underestimate new martial arts only because they aren't Japanese, Chinese, Korean or American. This, yes, is ridiculous.
If you are Brazilian, try to challenge a Taiyando Black Belt and you will see who is the "Ridiculous", here...
 

Livio Girotto

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Hello:

My name is Livio Girotto, I have been training Juego del Garrote (Garrote Larense) for about sixteen years, under the teachings of Maestro Mercédez Pérez.

As far as I know (and I have been practicing and teaching martial arts since 1972) there are no venezuelan empty hand martial arts.

If you are interested in Garrote Larense, consult www.garrotelarense.org, or contact me trough [email protected]

One more thing, Garrote Larense has nothing to do with Kali/escrima, it is different in every aspect, and none of the Spanish people that went to Phillipines traveled to America by the times of the Spanish Empire.

Regards,

Livio
 

Taker87

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There's a south american martial art called "Rumi Maki" taught by a peruvian martial artist. It's claimed to be the martial art of the incas. Interested? Go to Rumimaki.com to read about the disciplines of the south american martial art plus you can purchase the book at this website.
 

Taker87

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First of all no spanish pilgrims came to the phillipines or the americas theyre (mestizos/mesbas) not europeans. Rumi Maki is the martial art of the incas. Interested? Go to rumimaki.com to read more about it
 

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