So, What do you think?

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Hey, 10 minutes ago you were quitting Kenpo.

Love to chat more if you want on this.

Yeah, I know.....it was hard to walk away from and some pretty good people gave some brutally honest things to consider...needless to say Im not quitting, Kenpo has saved my @$$ on the street several times, I think I'll stick around for the right reasons.........

Ill send you a message on AIM or something if I see you on sometime.....I would love to chat with you more off of here man.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by brianhunter
Yeah, I know.....it was hard to walk away from and some pretty good people gave some brutally honest things to consider...needless to say Im not quitting, Kenpo has saved my @$$ on the street several times, I think I'll stick around for the right reasons.........

I've used Kenpo to haul my @ss out of the fire too. It's not a bad art.

You live close to Tom Kelley right? Whatever he calls his art I'd study from that guy if I had the chance in a heartbeat. Hard to walk away from a guy like him and what he offers.

Originally posted by brianhunter
Ill send you a message on AIM or something if I see you on sometime.....I would love to chat with you more off of here man.

My e-mail and AIM are valid. If you want to use them that's what they are there for and I always respond.

 

[Sigung86]

Doug,

You are a bright, brash young man, but often you assume too much.

Steve Spry is just a symptom of the West Coast Glitzy Martial Arts method. If he's not, it's still ok with me... I've never given out a cert or made false promises to anyone.

Interesting that you cover Kenpo in one glittering generality. I can think of one time when someone tried to assist you. It wasn't the way You wanted, and how you wanted, so you refused the assist.

Not everyone in the field of Kenpo is bad...

I wonder how you will be when the Grand Masters of Russian Martial Arts start blossoming?

And before you 'splode all over me... You know that I've never come down on you in a splatter of emotion. I just believe that you could simply sit back and look at the fact that you might have as much involvement in you being where you are, as everybody else out here.

And I really don't expect you to come back hitting at me... I'm not perfect... I know that ... But you are kind of getting to the point where you are blindly slapping at people who fit under a general heading ... Kenpoists, and a lot of those people are really worthy to be what they claim and do what they do.

Dan

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Doug,
You are a bright, brash young man,

I gotta be me.

Originally posted by Sigung86
but often you assume too much.

Sometimes. Sometime I just see too much.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Steve Spry is just a symptom of the West Coast Glitzy Martial Arts method. If he's not, it's still ok with me... I've never given out a cert or made false promises to anyone.

I don't think you would Dan. You're one of the good things about Kenpo that I like.

But it's not just the west coast. It's all over. ALL over.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Interesting that you cover Kenpo in one glittering generality. I can think of one time when someone tried to assist you. It wasn't the way You wanted, and how you wanted, so you refused the assist.

Well Dan, I have issues with that too and we don't agree on what went down but I was there and you were not.

I agree. I have in my mind what I want and how I want it and I will only bend so far in compromising myself. Sometimes I pay a price. I sleep well at night though.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Not everyone in the field of Kenpo is bad...

I agree. But you know what? They outnumber the good guys.

Originally posted by Sigung86
I wonder how you will be when the Grand Masters of Russian Martial Arts start blossoming?

Dunno. I won't be one adding to the problem though. There is no rank anyway. You either can do it or you can't. People follow the guys who do it. Not the guys with stripes. The same worked at my boxing club.

Originally posted by Sigung86
And before you 'splode all over me... You know that I've never come down on you in a splatter of emotion. I just believe that you could simply sit back and look at the fact that you might have as much involvement in you being where you are, as everybody else out here.

Dan, only diamond cuts diamond. I appreciate your view and I like them. I might not agree but I like them.

I am totally responsible for who I am and where I am. I accept that. But it isn't my fault Kenpo is where it is. How I got here doesn't change the fact of what is happening.

Originally posted by Sigung86
And I really don't expect you to come back hitting at me... I'm not perfect... I know that ... But you are kind of getting to the point where you are blindly slapping at people who fit under a general heading ... Kenpoists, and a lot of those people are really worthy to be what they claim and do what they do.

Then they ought to stand up and clean out their closet.

Cheers!

 

[Sigung86]

Doug ....

Thank you for the kind words... They don't come around on forums all that often.

One last series of thought here.

You keep saying "they". You have never said "We"... A very worn, tired, old trusim comes to mind. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

We, all of us, let the art get in the state it is in. Some of us have not turned our back on the art.

Kenpo will always be what it is. Generations come and generations go... Some add to it, some detract from it, but it is always there.

Kenpo, like anything else, is not what anyone else makes it... It is only what you make it. And what it is, or is not, is all in your perception. I mean, really ... We don't look down on Canada because of Lorne Greene or Terence and Philip!!! :lol:

Take care little Brother,

Dan

 

[John Bishop]

Video training and ranking, mail order black belts, inflated ranks, gratutious titles, self promotion, made up styles, riduculous claims of physical or mental abilities.
These things happen all over the world, even China, Japan, Korea, and the rest of the places where you'd think the martial arts would be pure.
And they certainly are not limited to Kenpo. In fact they occur in most martial arts.
It all started when someone figured out you could make money in the martial arts.

 

[rmcrobertson]

While I don't much care for the generalizations, Gou's got a pretty good point: it's easy to laugh at Steve Spry, because it makes us feel secure that we're so very, very different.

The same thing seems to happen on a lot of the forums and magazines I've looked at: the really obvious nutcakes, fakes, charlatans and slimeballs are objects of fascination partly because they offer alibis. Everybody can criticize what sucks in their martial arts practice (pretense and swaggering, for example), or kenpo (endless self-promotion by some), or Mr. Parker's actions (promoting Elvis to what was it? seventh? eighth? giving that fat thug Augusto Pinochet a black belt), without having to risk anything, because these problems only appear in somebody else.

Guys like Steve Spry, I think, are a symptom of what's wrong with the martial arts. John Bishop also has a point about the fact that this stuff pretty much always was wrong, but I also think it's a problem with the modern world and America in particular--land of the fee, don't you know. I mean, I train out here in California, and in a very funny book of fantasy Robert W. Smith remarked that, "California is to real martial arts as garlic is to vampires."

I don't know how you solve the problem. I'm pretty sure that it's inevitable, in capitalist societies, but a) capitalism isn't going anywhere any time soon, and b) feudal societies foster their own types of corruption. In many ways, the crappy politics and behaviour that's sometimes all too visible in American kenpo can be broken down into either a) celebrations of money-making, b) fantasies of return to some mythical, past happyland.

Sometimes, I read and hear calls for unity in kenpo, which supposedly would solve all these problems. Oh, hell no. I've met about the best people I've ever met in the art---and I've also met about the biggest collection of self-promoting fakes, fatheads, punks, bullies, fools, slobs, boneheads, and insecure power junkies I've ever seen. (Outside of colleges and universities, which is where I work, that is.) And it has been my general experience that it is not always the nice guys and gals who end up in charge of committees, governing bodies, etc. With a lot of startling exceptions (I just met some more exceptions, among the administrators who're working for Frank Trejo's upcoming tournament in Long Beach) it's the Steve Sprys of the world.
It does seem possible to make a living, establish a reputation, get students taught decently, and avoid being a total--well, you fill in the blank. My own head-of school (Larry Tatum) manages pretty well, as far as I've been able to see over the last ten years or so.

But it's a good point. All the easier to laugh at the guys who exemplify our own worst characteristics. That way, we don't have to look at what we're up to.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Doug ....
Thank you for the kind words... They don't come around on forums all that often.

You're not gonna hug me now are ya? Not in front of the guys...please Dad...not in front of the guys...
:rofl:

Originally posted by Sigung86
One last series of thought here.
You keep saying "they". You have never said "We"... A very worn, tired, old trusim comes to mind. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

I agree. I don't have a solution and I am complaining a lot. I just cannot find an answer.

Originally posted by Sigung86
We, all of us, let the art get in the state it is in. Some of us have not turned our back on the art.

I don't know what to say to that. I have a hard time holding onto the anchor as the ship goes down.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Kenpo will always be what it is. Generations come and generations go... Some add to it, some detract from it, but it is always there.

I agree. It has it's ups and down I guess.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Kenpo, like anything else, is not what anyone else makes it... It is only what you make it. And what it is, or is not, is all in your perception. I mean, really ... We don't look down on Canada because of Lorne Greene or Terence and Philip!!! :lol:

That's because you guys NEED culture.

Originally posted by Sigung86
Take care little Brother,
Dan

U2.

 

[GouRonin]

What an excellent post Robert. I bow to your ability to have written it. Kudos.

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by GouRonin
What an excellent post Robert. I bow to your ability to have written it. Kudos.

I agree to a greater or lesser extent!

Well Hells Bells Robert! I couldn't agree with you 100% People would begin to think we're gonna be friends someday!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan

 

[rmcrobertson]

Aw shucks. You guys....I just wanna thank the members of the Academy, and all the little people....

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Oh puh-leeze...the wind blows wrong and you're worried that you might not be getting what everyone else is getting out of your Kenpo.

Originally posted by GouRonin
Kirk and I have talked about this. I am not saying anything that he and I have not said in chats to each other.

Yeah, because of nay sayers such as yourself saying that so many
aren't teaching "real" or "proper" kenpo. How would a beginner
know, unless he asks. You sure seem to misinterpret what I
talk about in our chats, and then publicly post that info, often.
So noted!

 

[WilliamTLear]

First let me say that I also agree with Robertson's comments above. (Now, I'm not trying to get all mushy. Just staing a fact.)

Origionally Posted By Dan Farmer:

Steve Spry is just a symptom of the West Coast Glitzy Martial Arts method. If he's not, it's still ok with me... I've never given out a cert or made false promises to anyone.

#1. Are you implying that Ed Parker's American Kenpo System (having evolved in California) is the West Coast Glitzy Martial Art Method?

OR

#2. Are you implying that the Sex, Lies, and Video Tape Method to gaining rank in Kenpo is indigineous to the West Coast?

If #2 is a fair understanding of your comment, Half the guys that do this crap live on the east coast too... Jeeze, look out the window brother. It's a damn plague! :rofl:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
Half the guys that do this crap live on the east coast too... Jeeze, look out the window brother. It's a damn plague! :rofl:

Hey Uncle Dan, aren't you glad we're the sane ones out in the
midwest?

 

[Chu-Chulain]

Two observations:

1. In US, especially west coast (?) its Martial Business, not Martial Arts.

2. Where and how do all these people earn these ultra high ranks??? IMHO anything over 6th degree should be bordering on sancitification and 10th should certainly be close to God and should be chosen on par with choosing the pope!

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Chu-Chulain
Two observations:

1. In US, especially west coast (?) its Martial Business, not Martial Arts.

2. Where and how do all these people earn these ultra high ranks??? IMHO anything over 6th degree should be bordering on sancitification and 10th should certainly be close to God and should be chosen on par with choosing the pope!

Who the Heck are you, tryin' ta make sense and all????
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Aw shucks. You guys....I just wanna thank the members of the Academy, and all the little people....

Don't make fun of dwarves. They have feelings too.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
Yeah, because of nay sayers such as yourself saying that so many
aren't teaching "real" or "proper" kenpo. How would a beginner
know, unless he asks. You sure seem to misinterpret what I
talk about in our chats, and then publicly post that info, often.
So noted!

1) I have NEVER EVER told you anything regarding who is teaching and who is not teaching REAL or PROPER Kenpo. In fact I don't think you will ever find me saying that. Anywhere. You're misinterpreting.

2) Unless we've spoken about keeping things to ourselves I have never said anything to you that I woul dnot repeat in public.

...noted...
:shrug:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
1) I have NEVER EVER told you anything regarding who is teaching and who is not teaching REAL or PROPER Kenpo. In fact I don't think you will ever find me saying that. Anywhere. You're misinterpreting.

2) Unless we've spoken about keeping things to ourselves I have never said anything to you that I would not repeat in public.

...noted...
:shrug:

Yes, you have, and you're an ***. I won't name names, that's
more YOUR style, but no one believes you're the bad *** you
claim to be. Many who've seen you in action. Stick it where the
sun don't shine.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Who the Heck are you, tryin' ta make sense and all????
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Dan

There will be no bursts of sanity during the discussion please...