SKK Combos

[marlon]

We do not step back just shift a little to the RT. after we go under arm with Brachial nerve strike and we pull the arm with us we shoot an elbow to the ribs on the step through. (LT elbow holding arm) same strike down on Tricep then backfist to head. grab collar and do a LT chinese heal kick to back of knee pulling apponent back at same time w/ RT, then rt spinning hook kick which is a continueing flow from the chinse heal to a twist. Side note the kick to the back of the head most likely cannot be blocked. Not saying that if you do the entire technique perfect that they would block the left kick, but the possibility is there with the hands in front. I love the variations i am picking up from this thread.
In Peace
Jesse

Your right Jesse this thread is great!!

Marlon

 

[kosho]

comb 23

As the punch comes in I shift my hips and twist my weight to the right as I blend in a # 4 open hand block. once the punch is just past my movement i twist my body back towards the attackers and deliver a left cross hand shuto strike to the attackers throat and a right palm heal strike to the attackers mid section ( same time) I then take my left hand and check the attackers rotaion and shift his shoulders to control his hips and lower body for a few seconds. at that time i then deliver a right back 2 knuckle punch to the attackers face / temple area. I then follow that up with a right side blade kick to the attackers knee. once the attackers starts to fall, I then take my right hand and push on his left side of his colar bone and turn my body to the left. this motion will take the attacker to the ground. I then cross and cover.
kosho

 

[14 Kempo]

#23 - As punch comes in, step back slightly with right foot into cat stance as right shoulder turns back. Trap punch using right upward palm and left downward shuto to the wrist on rightside of body, assist attacker in moving inward, brings him off balance. Step in with left, strike with left crosshand shuto to neck/throat, right shuto to floating rib. Left foot steps back, left hand guards right ribs, right backfist to temple.

I'm not too good at writing these things, hope you get the picture!

 

[SK101]

DM(Combo)23 is the only combo I am aware of that has a strike while moving away. A chinese master told us once that all Shaolin Techniques end with a strike while moving away to catch the person if they come forward. Is anyone aware of any other DMs that also do this. You could interpret DM 9 this way if you land in a twist stance instead of foot to foot or pinetree.

 

[14 Kempo]

#35 could be considered as a strike while moving away, we deliver a side thrust kick into the ribs/solar plexus as a final strike. Maybe, just maybe #5, #7, #12 and #18 could be considered as a strike moving away ... just a thought. Depends on how you look at the technique.

 

[SK101]

#35 could be considered as a strike while moving away, we deliver a side thrust kick into the ribs/solar plexus as a final strike. Maybe, just maybe #5, #7, #12 and #18 could be considered as a strike moving away ... just a thought. Depends on how you look at the technique.

Good Point

 

[marlon]

a lot of variation on this one

 

[SK101]

a lot of variation on this one

Can you imagine what will happen when we go to the 40+s?

 

[Gufbal1982]

I disagree with that notion entirely. You are not stepping away, you are still keeping the same distance. If you do the technique correctly, your shoulder that is in striking distance gains strength and doesn't lose distance. You cannot truely strike effectively if you are moving backwards for 35. If there was truely shaolin in the art then you can understand the concept being presented at hand. You can see what I am saying if you had forms such as tong bei, lohan chuan, or any true shaolin form for that matter.

 

[SK101]

I disagree with that notion entirely. You are not stepping away, you are still keeping the same distance. If you do the technique correctly, your shoulder that is in striking distance gains strength and doesn't lose distance. You cannot truely strike effectively if you are moving backwards for 35. If there was truely shaolin in the art then you can understand the concept being presented at hand. You can see what I am saying if you had forms such as tong bei, lohan chuan, or any true shaolin form for that matter.

Any technique that does a strike while moving away has the issue of your energy moving away from the strike. The concept is to throw a strike out there in case the opponent charges. Your already leaving your just making sure it's harder for them to follow. If you don't use this concept or don't like the concept that's fine. Professor Ingargiola won a full contact USKBA fight with this theory. His opponent pressed him from one corner to the other. When he reached the opposite corner the opponent was unconsious as he was hitting the opponent while retreating. It is not ideal for maximam damage, but if your retreating you might as well retreat with a strike. Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[marlon]

I disagree with that notion entirely. You are not stepping away, you are still keeping the same distance. If you do the technique correctly, your shoulder that is in striking distance gains strength and doesn't lose distance. You cannot truely strike effectively if you are moving backwards for 35. If there was truely shaolin in the art then you can understand the concept being presented at hand. You can see what I am saying if you had forms such as tong bei, lohan chuan, or any true shaolin form for that matter.

power for striking comes from rooting proper body alignment and precision. whether you are moving forwards backwards or sideways will not change this. Think of 2 kata, statue of the crane, 5 pinan...neglis....if one could not strike effectively while moving backwards many things would not work. I understand your position and skk does teach moving forward a lot in response to an attack but there is this side also.

Respectfully,
marlon

 

[Gufbal1982]

power for striking comes from rooting proper body alignment and precision. whether you are moving forwards backwards or sideways will not change this. Think of 2 kata, statue of the crane, 5 pinan...neglis....if one could not strike effectively while moving backwards many things would not work. I understand your position and skk does teach moving forward a lot in response to an attack but there is this side also.

Respectfully,
marlon

I'm personally talking about the appearance of moving backwards, without moving backwards. The shaolin forms have a lot of this movement...it's called folding and unfolding the body. It's really interesting. You guys should check it out. Moving the body backwards has nothing to do with stepping like it is being referred to in reference to combinations 23 and 35.

 

[Gufbal1982]

Any technique that does a strike while moving away has the issue of your energy moving away from the strike. The concept is to throw a strike out there in case the opponent charges. Your already leaving your just making sure it's harder for them to follow. If you don't use this concept or don't like the concept that's fine. Professor Ingargiola won a full contact USKBA fight with this theory. His opponent pressed him from one corner to the other. When he reached the opposite corner the opponent was unconsious as he was hitting the opponent while retreating. It is not ideal for maximam damage, but if your retreating you might as well retreat with a strike. Just my humble 2 cents.

What you are talking about is completely different than what I am talking about. You're talking about following up. I'm not saying to not throw the strike. I'm saying that your energy isn't moving away. I'm saying that your energy is staying the same because 1. your center of gravity is still in the same spot because 2. you have not really stepped away. You have "v" stepped. I'm talking about the step and you are thinking about the strike.

 

[SK101]

power for striking comes from rooting proper body alignment and precision. whether you are moving forwards backwards or sideways will not change this. Think of 2 kata, statue of the crane, 5 pinan...neglis....if one could not strike effectively while moving backwards many things would not work. I understand your position and skk does teach moving forward a lot in response to an attack but there is this side also.

Respectfully,
marlon

Hello Marlon,

Were there any particular parts of K2, or P5 where you see yourself striking while moving away? I haven't thought of either of those forms as having that concept. Not that they don't. I am always curious to hear other interpretations. It often leads me to things I would never have thought of.

 

[Hand Sword]

I Don't know where everyone is getting their stuff. There are some great variations going on! However, there is something that is bothering me about what is being said lately. There is no moving away and striking in the forms or techniques. Bottom line is if you strike or kick, while moving away--no power. Shifting or "folding" as has been discussed is a whole nother thing. These principles were practiced and emphasised during my experiences with the system back in the day.

 

[14 Kempo]

What you are talking about is completely different than what I am talking about. You're talking about following up. I'm not saying to not throw the strike. I'm saying that your energy isn't moving away. I'm saying that your energy is staying the same because 1. your center of gravity is still in the same spot because 2. you have not really stepped away. You have "v" stepped. I'm talking about the step and you are thinking about the strike.

I agree, the movement away is on the 'rechamber' or 'recoil' of the kick or strike. As mentioned previously, it is in how you look at the technique. I can see where someone might think the movement is away on the finishing strikes of the aforementioned combos/dms. But as quoted above, the energy is the same ... still with the strike.

 

[marlon]

I Don't know where everyone is getting their stuff. There are some great variations going on! However, there is something that is bothering me about what is being said lately. There is no moving away and striking in the forms or techniques. Bottom line is if you strike or kick, while moving away--no power. Shifting or "folding" as has been discussed is a whole nother thing. These principles were practiced and emphasised during my experiences with the system back in the day.

actually if you really want to be specific your feet are rooted when you strike whether your initial motion was forwards or backwards. What do you call it if you step back with your left leg and throw a rt roundhouse kick? 2 kata starts with stepping back a downward hand motion usually called a dropping palm block then a rising hand motion usually called a crane or chicken wrist (a chicken in the system...lol) strike (it compliments well the beginning of 1 kata). after the side thrust kick there is an inverted ridge hand block as you step back that is followed by a spear hand poke.in 5 pinan after the elbow strike and re inforced block (well not really a block ) there is a cat stance with a strike to the back that can be interpreted as moving away. at the end with the reverse bow stance there is one hand above the head the body weight has shifted in the direction away from the target and what is the other hand doing? at the beginning of first nenglis after the first series of kicks you begin to step back with blocks strikes grabs and breaks...the end of second nenglis your are kick each time you step back... the elbow break in swift tigers can be seen as a movement away because of the stance and weight shift...in five dragons and you are on the ground moving away you throw a side thrust kick. in each instance when the strike comes in to contact with the target you are technically not moving but this is what i mean. i have been tagged many times by Yanik in sparring because he would move back and i would follow and run into a side thrust kick. So let me know what you call this, but i can easily see it as striking while retreating. BTW i do not consider the kick in 35 or 5 to be moving back in any sense of the idea...if done properly the other strikes should move the person away from you if you do not grab them and then you might even have to shuffle in...it is a problem when we practice without contact that some techniques can be seen ...differently.The dropping knife hand to the arm as you move back into a cat stance in 23 is an example of limb destruction . If you cannot fight while moving backwards give it a try..it is an excellent tactic to draw an opponent in or feign weakness where there is none.

Respectfully,
marlon

 

[DavidCC]

One of the prinicples I was taught is, to increase range, move forward, to decrease range move back:

You move forward, your opponent moves back, you move back (or stop moving forward) and let him increase the range.

You move back, he moves forward, you move forward (or stop moving back) and let him decrease the range.

Is this sortof what they mean in Kosho-ryu when they say "move twice"?

 

[Hand Sword]

actually if you really want to be specific your feet are rooted when you strike whether your initial motion was forwards or backwards. What do you call it if you step back with your left leg and throw a rt roundhouse kick? 2 kata starts with stepping back a downward hand motion usually called a dropping palm block then a rising hand motion usually called a crane or chicken wrist (a chicken in the system...lol) strike (it compliments well the beginning of 1 kata). after the side thrust kick there is an inverted ridge hand block as you step back that is followed by a spear hand poke.in 5 pinan after the elbow strike and re inforced block (well not really a block ) there is a cat stance with a strike to the back that can be interpreted as moving away. at the end with the reverse bow stance there is one hand above the head the body weight has shifted in the direction away from the target and what is the other hand doing? at the beginning of first nenglis after the first series of kicks you begin to step back with blocks strikes grabs and breaks...the end of second nenglis your are kick each time you step back... the elbow break in swift tigers can be seen as a movement away because of the stance and weight shift...in five dragons and you are on the ground moving away you throw a side thrust kick. in each instance when the strike comes in to contact with the target you are technically not moving but this is what i mean. i have been tagged many times by Yanik in sparring because he would move back and i would follow and run into a side thrust kick. So let me know what you call this, but i can easily see it as striking while retreating. BTW i do not consider the kick in 35 or 5 to be moving back in any sense of the idea...if done properly the other strikes should move the person away from you if you do not grab them and then you might even have to shuffle in...it is a problem when we practice without contact that some techniques can be seen ...differently.The dropping knife hand to the arm as you move back into a cat stance in 23 is an example of limb destruction . If you cannot fight while moving backwards give it a try..it is an excellent tactic to draw an opponent in or feign weakness where there is none.

Respectfully,
marlon

Stepping back with the left and throwing a right roundhouse kick...I would call it a weak kick, and never try it. If they are coming and you try this, expect to end up on your backside. As for the 2 kata and 5 pinion analogies, you're not moving away. You've settled in your stances when you block then strike. You momentum has come to a stop, and you deliver power in your strikes. Or, the settling of the bottom half, empowers the top half. It's a timing thing, basically. Feel the power difference of rising Chicken wristing with the left, while dropping back with the right leg, as opposed to shuffling back and chickenwristing. Closer examining of your examples will show that you're shifting parts of you, and not "moving away" per say. You yield, never retreat. That will draw them in or feign them in.

 

[Gufbal1982]

Stepping back with the left and throwing a right roundhouse kick...I would call it a weak kick, and never try it. If they are coming and you try this, expect to end up on your backside. As for the 2 kata and 5 pinion analogies, you're not moving away. You've settled in your stances when you block then strike. You momentum has come to a stop, and you deliver power in your strikes. Or, the settling of the bottom half, empowers the top half. It's a timing thing, basically. Feel the power difference of rising Chicken wristing with the left, while dropping back with the right leg, as opposed to shuffling back and chickenwristing. Closer examining of your examples will show that you're shifting parts of you, and not "moving away" per say. You yield, never retreat. That will draw them in or feign them in.

That's something my instructor from FV called a bamboo principle.